rds
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Post by rds on Sept 28, 2019 15:52:10 GMT
Cheers Mij in link 1 to Scootering, pis 12 and 13 show the same lateral distances as mine did before the MOT tester had his way and before my modification. The MOT tester seems convinced that the damper bottom mount provides a secondary connection to the body and is critical because it is a single sided affair with an offset engine and not a dual shock with an engine along the centre line of the scooter. In this view the movement of the damper along the sleeve inside the bush WILL allow the wheel to move also and along the cradle to come into contact with the soft alloy casing of the engine unit, hence a fail. However, the cradle is ALWAYS going to slide along the sleeve even if I pack out with small washers, it has to, because there is nothing to stop it doing so in the original design and the factory provided parts with dimensions that allow that. Using large diameter washers is not an option given the length of the sleeve and the cradle gap. The cradle is bridged by the correct length sleeve to ensure a tight fit around the engine mount. Notwithstanding that and to satisfy the tester, I have shortened the (original) sleeve so that it is the same length of the bush and introduced large penny washers between the cradle and the alloy casing so as to constrain the bush and sleeve and to protect the casing.
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 28, 2019 15:46:35 GMT
Brilliant, thanks Ironsloth the first pic shows that (despite the oil weeps) that set up has much less clearance than mine did....until earlier today when i shortened the sleeve 2.5mm and fitted oversize penny washers between the cradle and the casing. Not had a road test yet. cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 27, 2019 14:22:25 GMT
Believe it or not, I have done a search for other bike MOT places locally. The thing is they are all getting poor reviews on the web! The best one, really old-school, passed away suddenly recently and his shoes have not been filled by anyone. I'll look further afield.
This one says he wants his MOTs to be whiter than white.....
This is what ruins the motor trade generally sadly. Women complain that they get a raw deal when they take the car/bike into garages, citing sexism. I contradict them and tell them its the same for many people, male or female!
I may have to hang around parking bays to get shots of vespa rears if noone will post any pics....
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 25, 2019 22:52:25 GMT
Was thinking about this as I fell asleep last night, found the answer! Ask the MOT man to draw what he wants done! Do you not have a few days or a couple of weeks to return it for it's re-test? Can't remember the exact time. Mij☺ Apologies to all - it's been a s*d of a few weeks. I got it in just before the grace period ended. I wished I HAD asked him to draw it but all he said was "fit a few washers between and you are sorted" hence my "what material washers" which irritated him a bit....asking to get a pencil out would have irritated him further. He made a comment about being a specialist mechanic on a particular make so i asked him a technical question on that make and a particular model that i saw him working on before and......he swerved it..... Anyway, I think he wants me to fit steel washers that will keep the cradle flanges of the damper from sliding along the sleeve and keep the sleeve from sliding within the bush, so that the flanges do not come into contact with the alloy casing. If that is the case the large penny washers with 10mm hole will have to be fitted. I'll have a play with all the different washers and spacers that have amassed this week. However, this dispute is why I asked for pics of other's damper/casing area. Maybe my damper has too large a distance between the flanges? can anyone post pics of a good set up please? cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 23, 2019 0:07:53 GMT
That's ok mate, it is manic here with work and other duties anyway. That looks good and appears to be 48mm length rather than the 35mm i sourced. I use talcum on my cycle rubber parts but never thought to use it on the scooter!! thanks for the tip. I still have to fit some spacers to the flanges of the damper cradle though. Bought a selection today BUT one thing is bugging me: MOT tester wanted to keep the steel of the cradle away form the alloy of the engine casing so as to stop the casing wearing away being softer. When i asked what material be wanted the spacers to be, thinking he would say aluminium so as to act as a sacrificial barrier, he said "steel". I can;t see it: if the rubbing of the steel cradle is problematical, then the rubbing that the steel spacer would transmit to the casing would have the same effect.....surely? cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 20, 2019 21:23:45 GMT
Brilliant thanks; i will check the dims against the scooter. However, what do you think about the steel outer shroud of the bush that will now be right against the alloy of the casing?
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 19, 2019 23:01:32 GMT
many thanks Ironsloth - cripes, that is worse than the CPC Farnell site!!!
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 19, 2019 20:26:06 GMT
Hello Ironsloth yes an isolastic or metalastic bush is exactly what I wanted really - I had visions of wading through internal and external dimensions sheets with no clear result and time slipping by so I took the "easy route" and tried to buy off the peg from the supplier mentioned above after checking the other suppliers in Scootering. In the end, I am still not entirely happy and will fit the spacers. However if you have a link to the bush suppliers, do please post it to help others (and me when I do it again....soon!)
cheers
RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 19, 2019 20:21:58 GMT
What about a metalastik bush? RS Components do many different sizes, dirt cheap too.
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 19, 2019 20:21:27 GMT
Hello Mij
I did fit a new bush and sleeve sourced from Buzzsolomoto before going back to the MOT station.
I had also bought a new bolt/nut washer. I had a suspicion there were different sizes and called Buzzsolomoto first to discuss what i actually needed ie a 35mm bush, 10mm bolt and sleeve. Guess what, they sent me a 30mm bush, 9mm bolt and 10mm sleeve. Another call, another wait and the 35mm bush arrived (i was told Piaggio OEM but who knows?). I used a 10mm bolt from my own stock. I could not find any stiffer bushes despite my desire to find them, at a reasonable price within the UK.
There were no marks on the case either.
Unlike the video (which I did not find on my prior search), i used a bush and sleeve extractor that i made up myself without needing to take the wheel and drum off or whacking the sleeve out!! I though that was rather poor practice.
I greased up the rubber bush with silicone grease internally (possibly why the sleeve slips but was easy to fit) and externally and the bolt with LM grease.
The video was very useful though because it seems to show spacers where MOT tester wants them: see 5:52.....or maybe ith doesnt, and that is just the sleeve and clear air between the flange and the casing? Would you care to comment on what we can see?
I'll threddle them over the bolt.
Interestingly, MOT tester was not interested in the stock piaggio set up per the parts manual....
Cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 19, 2019 12:37:58 GMT
Ok update. i see what MOT tester is on about and it concerned me too before i started. The lower cradle (ie the two locating flanges) of the shock/damper is able to slide sideways, during use, along part of the length of the inner bush sleeve thus possibly allowing the steel cradle/flanges to come into contact with the alloy engine casing. Although there are no witness marks of this happening, it is not ideal and spacer washers are to be fitted.
Anyone else noticed this or fitted spacers or dealt with it using another effective engineering solution? I doubt the bottom of the shock/damper is supposed to slide sideways to any appreciable extent.
cheers
RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 17, 2019 23:14:10 GMT
cheers all
problem is that bike MOT places are getting fewer and ones run by people who dig the older stuff fewer still. I am asking around. the better tester seems to have left there a few months back. Shame there is no register, accessible by the public, of (previous) testers and where they are located (now!).
I was going to take him another retro looking scoot having tightened up the headstock bearings but Mij's story makes me think twice there.
will report back.
cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 17, 2019 0:55:38 GMT
Log a complaint and Take it to a different garage I thought of that too but looking up the regs, you can't do the work then complain (ie a question of proof) and even if you "win" you have to pay another fee and get back part of the previous fee!! By that time you are out of the re-test concessionary price so you loose on all counts.... Ironsloth: no there is no such sound so fair to assume he meant bottom bush. any photos please of a properly set up damper/bush area to compare? Cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 16, 2019 9:45:34 GMT
Good point but I don't think so, he was pointing at the lower Bush and how it was "split", in fact it is rubber moulding flash.
After I took the damper off I checked for witness marks where "the arm was hitting the body"... there were none.
Anyone post any pics please?
Cheers
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rds
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Post by rds on Sept 14, 2019 14:42:28 GMT
Hello Vespisti
my PX 200e failed the MOT on the rear suspension bush being "excessively worn". Verbally he said that the bush was split and the damper flanges fouling the "body" (the latter is odd as the bush is at the rear of the engine casing).
I've taken the bush out and its clearly recent and perfect (I've compared the dimensions to the new one) which has put me on notice re Mr Mot-man. Nevertheless I have replaced bush, sleeve and correct size bolt with genuine new Piaggio items. Nut is torqued per the Haynes manual.
The damper sits as it did before, but now that all is reassembled, I didn't see any fouling of bodywork before or now. I've called Mr MOT-man to re-book and mentioned the perfect bush etc but he is playing hard ball already and I sense some hostility. When I go back, I doubt I will get a welcome.
So, can anyone please take and post some photos of how the PX rear damper/flanges/bolts/bush etc should sit? Of course, recent "MOT pass scooter pics will be even more welcome"
Many thanks and I hope not to have caused inconvenience with the request.
cheers
RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Jul 20, 2019 19:58:23 GMT
Hello all
after a 2 month lay up (scooter worked fine last time) i wanted to get my MOT but scooter would not start, even no kick start. Your advice is gratefully received using the symptoms below:
Testing for a spark on the plug was negative replacing the plug yielded no spark cleaning plug cap still no spark Cap and plug lead tested ok for resistance
A while back I had an issue with the start/kill green loom wire at the crankcase junction block however it would run if disconnected and therefore replacing the damaged section restored operation. As a result I checked this again and this time there was no spark with the green loom wire disconnected. battery voltage 12.55v At the coil wires from the stator, i measured the following: white to green: 530 ohm (Haynes states 500+/-20) white to red: 12 Ohm (Haynes states 110+/- 5)
On the ignition unit terminals: white to green: 89 Ohm white to red: 470 Ohm reg to green: 89 Ohm
On the same terminals to earth (cleaned up), I measured:
white to earth 0.02 Ohm
red to earth 0.47 Ohm
green to earth 0 Ohm
Kicking (with foot not motor) over the starter i had the following voltages on the coil wires from the stator white to green: 60 vAC white to red: 0.2 vAC
reg to green: 50 vAC
With all the above, i think i have shown that: Primary and secondary HT coils are ok Stator coils are OK Hall sensor is ok.
Also i get lighting as i kick over with spark plug out to ease compression.
Plenty compression and fuel is ok too.
Advise and thought more than welcome.....
cheers
RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Apr 30, 2019 23:29:38 GMT
thanks Mij i have just done that with a slight edit to make more legible
will let you know.
RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Apr 18, 2019 23:13:41 GMT
To add to the other issues with which this scoot is torturing me, here is another:
the new fuel tap lever (metal with slotted or forked end) has detached it self from the new petc**k under the tank. I think i have left it in the "Chiuso" position (that's your actual Italian!) but who knows...
When i fitted the new tank 6 months ago and the new fuel tap ,i thought the tap was a bit stiff so i lubed it up and it seemed free enough compared to other bikes bt not totally loose. Attaching the lever did not seem to be that secure to me but in the absence of any other means i put it in. Now, it's just fallen out and i am really annoyed.
So, is there a trick to the attachment of the lever or a better means than the one supplied (R clip if i recall correctly). if i have to take the tank out i'd like to make this a permanent fix.....
Thanks for your thoughts in advance.
cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Apr 18, 2019 23:05:51 GMT
Hello
a request for advice please! 6v non battery 150 super; questions toward the end of post.....
Background: My handle bar switch fell apart so I replaced it with an Indian copy and i recall that i wired it in the same way as it came out, matching the Haynes manual wiring diagram as best as i could The speedo was changed and the bulb uses two wires rather than the single wire and direct to earth per the manual All bulbs are per the 150 super spec in the manual as to wattage The rear light was an awful, ugly black plastic affair and i replaced it with a second hand and possibly cheapo plastic chrome type from a the Scooterfest bike jumble. I copied the earthing and feed arrangements and they seem to follow the Haynes diagram also.
Issues: the light are now VERY bright (compared to when the old rear light was on the scooter) and depositing metal on the inside of the festoon bulbs. They will blow soon. The brake light glows dimly even when the brake is off but if pressed it will get slightly brighter and reduce the tail light brightness.
I appreciate this is a balanced system with no real, separate voltage regulator. measuring the output at the terminal block on the blue and yellow lightning coil wires we saw 1.6 volts as i eased the kick start by hand and a solid 12v when the scooter was running.
Questions: is it likely that someone aha fitted a 12v coil here hence the over-bright 6v bulbs? or is it more likely that i have a short to the lighting circuit from the horn/brake light circuit? are there any "known issues" or "go tos" with the wiring looms on the this model?
Looking at the flywheel it has been butchered and i do not give much hope in getting it off without more damage. the connections at the terminal box have even been soldered together rather than using spades so separating them to do more tests is a b*gger too as it looks like they are smaller than the usual Lucar male/female spades?
Thoughts (apart from "scrap it"!) most welcome.
cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Apr 18, 2019 22:42:32 GMT
Hello Mij
many thanks for that. I have a 150 super with no performance items on it at all as far as i can see.
However the bike has not been treated too kindly by previous owners and I am left to pick up the pieces to get the thing running properly.
As the carb looked knackered and was impossible to set idle or mixture (several gaskets were missing, needle valve was damaged etc) I considered a refurbish kit but the price was not too far off a new SI20/15 from Willenhall Scooters, so that's what I bought. At the same time i stripped and cleaned a few friends' carbs that had been superseded by their other needs (ranging form 20/15 to 20/20) and temporarily fitted an SI 20/20 which might be over fuelling the bike in its low state of tune.
Anyway comparing all the jets part numbers form the various carbs none actually matched the Haynes manual list but between all the carbs there are a few variations and it was my hope to lay out a selection of each jet in richness order so that i could test which felt better on the bike (without dyno!!). This is especially the case as i foresee the need for a new exhaust soon.
In other words, i have been trying to think ahead re the carb to be fitted to match a new non-performance exhaust. However this has been put slightly on hold until i deal with the issues that arose over the last few days (see separate posts coming up!).
Is this a wasted exercise though and i should get the bike going with the current set up however bad and make changes incrementally (which costs more....!)?
cheers
RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Apr 16, 2019 0:24:52 GMT
Many thanks to you both there; i did originally do a jetting search. I had hoped the info i would find would be in a simple table for each parameter, in one place, like i have seen for Amal and SU carbs, so that i could easily order eg one or two steps up or down as required. The info on the "image search" results that i did turned out not to be as simple as i had hoped and seems to be a resource for performance tuners rather than getting a dodgy bike back working! Still, the links on the last two posts are much appreciated!
cheers
RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Apr 13, 2019 17:58:36 GMT
I have been "lucky" enoug" to dismantle a number of Dellorto SI carbs recently and to compare the jets to the Haynes Manual. Few of the carbs have jets that match the listings, naturally.
I have looked in several places but not come up with what I would like, which is a unified resource (eg a spreadsheet table) listing clearly in order of ascending (or even descending) "richness" (I do not mind which way it goes, as long as it is clear and foolproof, nothing fancy) the idle/slow running jet, the main jet (all three pieces separately) and choke jet.
Eg is 142 richer or leaner than 140? Is B1 richer or leaner than BE1? etc etc
Can anyone point me in the right direction or have the table to hand please?
Cheers
RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Feb 19, 2019 18:46:25 GMT
Hello Mij
I've extracted the worm thanks, now have piaggio replacement and hope to fit this week. As long as I didn't get a ticket on way to supplier.
Yes thanks for the modification info!Cheers
RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Feb 19, 2019 1:43:22 GMT
Mij the buzz worm is not oem, buzz told me. Cheers
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rds
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Post by rds on Feb 18, 2019 16:47:53 GMT
i would contact a franchised piaggio dealer and ask them for genuine parts, I fully understand your dislike for pattern and poor quality parts, however the reason for such parts existing is because piaggio choose not to support parts for older machines. Probably worth a phone call to Ron Dealey or Midland scooter centre first or visit your local franchised dealer and ask them. Another genuine parts stockist is A J Sutton. I often use pattern parts but try to buy parts that are Italian made as they are usually half decent. It is hard to beat face to face conversations at your local shop/dealer. Good luck with your search and report back with your progress. Ian <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.200000000000045px; height: 5.159999999999997px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_2239944" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1132px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_82463136" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 197px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_44435663" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1132px; top: 197px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_89524036" scrolling="no"></iframe> Hello Ian yes, that's why i was a bit frustrated to find that the worm wasn't a real Piaggio item. Off to Agius for me then and speak to Claude. If not joy I;ll call the others you mention. Piaggio is one of "those" companies then..... At the back of my mind there is a European Directive that requires motor manufacturers to produce enough spares to see each model through 20 years after production ends. I may have dreamed this though.... cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Feb 18, 2019 16:43:45 GMT
Mij, how did you get the clearance alone? can you also point me to the modification? cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Feb 18, 2019 16:42:28 GMT
Sadly Ian, that was the supplier that confirmed to me that they ARE NOT genuine Piaggio! Thanks for trying.
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rds
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Post by rds on Feb 17, 2019 11:02:25 GMT
Hello Mij Thanks for that but the last few words are telling! Ie "I just fit them" I want a longer term fix with good components and do it once, especially given that this tiny job takes two people, one to put weight on the front and the other to attend to the 8mm bolt and withdraw the assembly then, if you have a worm in stock, reassemble. I don't have a worm in stock nor a helper handy when I want to work!
All I want is good quality parts. Pattern parts are generally inferior.
Anyone know if there is an oem one?
Cheers RDS
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rds
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Post by rds on Feb 16, 2019 12:05:51 GMT
Hello after gratefully using the info on this forum to diagnose my sudden lack of speedometer i managed to extract the worm and there it was, partly stripped.
Thinking that there must be good, bad and indifferent replacement qualities, i decided to play it safe and look for a new OEM plastic one. Ebay had a listing from a noted Vespa parts supplier showing the manufacturer as "Piaggio" but on confirming this with the supplier they told me it wasn't!!
Anyway, is there an OEM replacement or are they all the same crap plastic so i might as well get the cheapest?
Do the "real" ones come in Piaggio bags etc? How else can i tell?
Ideally i'd like to fit over the next few days so early replies welcome!!
Cheers RDS
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