Selecting and Replacing Engine Mounts

[sime66]

Chaps, this engine mounts malarkey is a job I haven’t tackled before, and I have to do it twice in the next few months, and I could really do with some help getting the correct bits – on:

VLX1M-6033** = ‘1983 PX150E Arcobaleno’ – EFL (Old Faithful), doing that one first, and then
VLX1M-4335** = ‘1982 PX150E’ (The Beast – now also EFL)

The casings have minor differences, but the only thing that might be relevant is that the rear shock bolt is M10 on 1983 and M9 on 1982, though I think I can get the same shock mount rubber for both, with new M10 bushes.

From what I can gather T5 and PX200 have equal sized left and right main engine mounts, and 125s and 150s have different size ones like this (VE10146), which I think I could use for both engines:



Given that these are nearly £20 with postage, and even more from VE Supermarket with their £7.50 post! (More than buying the same item from Germany – shame on you VE), and also that slightly better than standard might be a good idea (without spending fortunes on Polyurethane mounts), I had a look at SIP and ScooterCentre, and found these BGM ones:

www.scooter-center.com/en/product/BGM7951/Silentblocks+kit+engine+BGM+PRO+Vespa+PX80+PX125+PX150+Sprint150+VLB1T+TS125+VNL3T+GT125+VNL2T+GTR125+VNL2T+Super+GL150+VLA1T+VNA+VNB+VBA+VBB



AND:

www.scooter-center.com/en/product/BGM7956/Silent+rubber+set+shock+absorberengine+BGM+PRO+Made+in+Germany+10mm+x+48mm+Vespa+PX+1984+T5+125cc+PK



I think I can use that shock mount for both (M10 x48mm – none of the M9 ones list any PXs as a fit). I suppose to be sure I’ll have to check the internal diameter of the hole for the rubber on each engine casing; I don’t want to overcomplicate it, but I certainly don’t want to order the wrong items either.

So that’s what I think I’ve sussed out; here’s just a final couple of questions to help me order the right bits; this is new to me and each time I’ve looked at it before I’ve ended up putting off making a decision because I’ve been unsure, but I need these jobs done now:

1) Am I right that the VE10146-type mounts are correct for my engines?
2) Do you chaps reckon these BGM ones are a worthwhile improvement on the VE ones? – I cannot find any that state 'Piaggio' or 'OEM' (lots of SIP listings out of stock; maybe obsolete), although there are LML ones on SIP, and €30 (£24) posted from Scootercentre for the BGM ones isn’t actually much more anyway, especially if I add some more stuff to the order.
3) Is this rear shock mount dimension critical, or are they all the same and I’m being overcautious with the dimensions when there isn’t any difference? I suppose the only way to be sure is to measure both of them; I guess I’ll do that, but is it simpler than I’m making it?

Any help or advice will be appreciated; thanks, chaps.

[pxguru]

Fresh new original like VE mounts will feel better for sure. Poly ones will make it handle like never before but the extra vibration through the whole frame can be a bit un-comfortable.
These look like the right ones to me. Sticking to rubber mounts is the best way for a touring scooter. They are a lot easier to fit than I think what you are preparing for. Literally a five minute job for each rubber.

[swm]

Like you Sime, I've never attempted this job either. I don't want to confuse matters as I could well be wrong and am ready to be shot down by someone in the know !!!

But aren't these what your after or similar ?

www.beedspeed.com/vespa-engine-mount-bush-genuine-px125150-super-p-3821.html 

OR

www.beedspeed.com/vespa-engine-mount-bush-easy-lmlpxsprintsuper-p-10346.html

AND

www.beedspeed.com/vespa-engine-shock-mount-rear-rubber-tube-pxprimsuper-p-1794.html

These could be useful to watch , Robots a belter !!

Cheers.

[sime66]

Well done chaps; I think we’re all talking about the same parts and job then. 
We agree SWM - your second Beedspeed link for the main engine mount is also VE10146; the two-part, easy-install job, but in my recent experience buying from Beedspeed is a lottery as far as actually getting the item ordered is concerned, and with them I’m fed-up receiving poor quality and having to decide whether to waste time sending stuff back or putting up with it, so they’ve earned themselves relegation to the bottom of my suppliers list for now. The same item is on Ebay too, but it’s one of those Welsh suppliers who seem to fall out with each other and change their identity every few weeks, which puts me off all of them, though I’m sure some of them are OK, but it’s hard to keep track of them. Wasp, who I try to use most, don’t stock them, and VE do have retail now, but their postal charge is prohibitive, so I went German, and then found the BGM ones, which I sort of feel happier with anyway. But your third link for the shock mount does confirm that the rubber is the same for the M9 (’82) and M10 (’83), which my measuring this lunchtime confirms as well – the casings are the same. So no more embarrassing trying to get an M10 bolt in an M9 hole!
I’ve seen those ScooterWest videos too, though I haven’t watched the engine mounts ones recently, and I’m going to get a bit of stud, sleeve and plates like they do and wind it in like they show (by hand though, not drill), also I think my crank/drive shaft puller tool will work for the shock mount bush, and I’m encouraged that we're confident it’ll be a straight forward job. I have some tyre red grease here that will be OK to use. Those ScooterWest videos are going to be excellent for when I do my disc forks this Autumn too; I have all the good ones downloaded and put onto three DVDs to accompany the Sausage ones.
Pxguru, new mounts are essential on the old engine before I do anything with it; they’re really knackered - I probably should have done them last time when I rebuilt it in 2014, and doing them first will give me a practice run before doing The Beast after the Summer, which maybe will help my speed vibration, though the mounts on that one seemed alright when I decided not to do those before, in 2015. Both will certainly be a good job to have done on each engine, especially if it improves my ride, which actually feels good other than the vibration. I feel happier spending an extra €5-10 per engine on what is possibly a bit of an upgrade on the VE10146, and is branded ‘BGM’ in the rubber, so I know I’ve got what I paid for, rather than something of uncertain origin in a bag with ‘VE10146’ written on it. (Another €80 and I’m free freight from Germany too; must be something else to waste spend my money on………….?)
Thank you both; I reckon it’s time to tackle this little job that I’ve avoided up to now. I’ll update when I do it to show if I encounter any problems that others might want to avoid later…….

(I'm going to do my drain repair on the other engine too, so I can get it off my bedroom floor, where it’s been for the last six months; more on that later).

[vespasco]

I was going to say, do you get much vibration through the chassis.... and do you feel any 'softness' in the rear of the engine.... taking into account the speeds you can now do.
I'm still using the original mounts because they're firm but no vibrations through the chassis, that's good enough for me.
My experience with rubbers has been a bit of a let down... but there are pills for that nowadays, er, i mean, all the cheaper rubber kits i've bought have been of lesser quality than the originals I've had.
My rear shock tube was too long for my shocks, so measure your shock too! just to be sure.










i kindly left out so many things about rubbers, hard, grip, feel, firm, length, girth. i'm so glad i didn't mention any of those things

[henri]

the bgm's will be fine ,better than rock hard lml's . gettin new mounts in isnt hard ,red grease an a dip in hot water an they pop in easy .gettin old mounts out can be a beggar .steak knife down side an a blast of wd40 an pour a kettle of hot water over swingin arm to get a tad off heat in there .if they still dont want to shift drill a load of holes round in the rubber an weaken them . H

[sime66]

Well done chaps, I'm feeling quietly confident about this job now.
Funny you should mention the shock width actually; these Carbone shocks were supposed to be narrow, but it fitted OK, and this lunchtime I did measure that the bush would fit: I have 47mm measured bush and 48mm measured internal on the shock, and 48mm bush stated on the BGM listing, so it will be tight; might need a Dremel-tweak (before fitting!). H, I'll have a bash on the rubbers in my old engine next time i feel like venting some anger; might be good therapy.

Now don't rush off; I'm doing a drain repair thread in a minute....................







I am also glad you avoided any unnecessary smutty innuendo, vespasco; I prefer my mounting rubber-free really 

[sime66]

That was a little bit more of a fight than Robot showed, but got there in the end.
The narrow side was particularly stubborn, and there’s little room to get in there with the collar on, AND the collar DOES NOT just prize off like Robot shows (git).
So I cleared the big side of rubber and pushed it in a bit, which gave me enough space to firstly warm up the collar the other end after grinding the swages down, which didn’t shift it, but then hacksaw through it (I’d broken my Dremel chuck getting the nuts off the buggered hub studs earlier on Saturday morning). Once I’d got the collar off, there was room to get in and dig, but that narrow one is a bugger, so I got me drill to it. Once that rubber comes out the sleeve is loose and just falls through. Hallelujah!! Then a tidy, then breakfast (in a minute) then going out for a ride round and chase some sheep). Quick few pics; just for the sake of it:









I’ll order the bits now - gonna get the BGM ones, and I know what to expect when I do The Beast in the Autumn; I’ll give it all a good clean up while I’m waiting for stuff. I have the shock mount to do still, but that’s enough Medieval Mood Therapy for this weekend; time to play……………………………….


......Just a quick update to finish phase 1 of this little job; the Indian crank/drive shaft puller tool was of no use on the shock mount as I’d hoped, but I pushed the bush through with an old ‘G’ Clamp, then it was easy peasy with some long nose pliers up the side of the rubber, some WD40 and a bit of twisting and tugging. – Sorted!!







Next job, ScooterCentre order, and hope I don’t think of something else just after I’ve completed it………………

[sime66]

Easy, peasy; thanks for the advice chaps!   

It only took half-hour, after making sure I’d got all the nuts, washers, sockets etc. together that I thought I would be likely to need for pulling them in, before I got my hands greasy. I’d got a length of studding and I used the old mount tube as a sleeve too. Sockets were good for adjusting the rear bush within the rubber, the old steering ring nuts and a big washer worked well as sleeves against the engine casting itself, for the fine adjustment too, and for when I wanted to pull the stubborn smaller mount against the casing rather than against the other mount.
I expect you’re thinking I should have used red grease, but this is tyre mounting grease from ScooterCentre; it ain’t red, but don’t be thinking I used any old lube!!
Maybe the camera angle of the rear shock mount makes it look off-centre; it ain’t, I’ve showed a rear and top image to show it.
All in all it’s another job that I’ll be confident to tackle in the future, so thanks again - Job done:

[vespasco]

wow. you made that sound easy!

I was worried when i saw what i thought was petroleum jelly but read that you had done your homework!
and its good to see you using and adapting what tools/parts you already have

[sime66]

...it's down to asking all the questions before doing it wrong innit, and having you lot to let me pick your brains while I'm thinking about new jobs.