The delights of an engineering workshop on my scooters is invaluable haha I like giving the engineer's little projects,me trying to drill rivets out with my little black&decker don't mix so take it in work get it on the bench drill jobs a goodun and get a proper nice job done for the cost of a breakfast to keep them sweet,winner!!!time to enter the man cave to replace bearings,hope all is going well sime with the engine looking forward to the next video.
Cheers, mate. I've got to be patient now; have to take a bit of care with the running-in now, then setting carb up and timing before really having a blast (deliberately running rough-and-rich for now), but the difference is already significant, even in the short ride I had on Saturday I could feel a real strong pull. I'll do more updates later in week or weekend, but I'm waiting for this shock bolt now and then just do some miles. I'm very happy with it though.
Cheers, H; this is the plan: * 3%, not 2% - need to clarify if that's just first tank, or full running-in period. * A few 10 mile runs to start, allowing engine to cool fully between. * 200 spluttery miles, (big mj, rich mixture screw) staying in 3rd, then rejet (strobe first). * Ride freely, but not long WOT or slow low-rev cruising – need to clarify if still 500 mile running-in, ie another 300 being careful. So next time I start her up I'll hope to go for a 10 mile ride or two, and that will be as soon as I get this bolt in. If all goes well I'll do 200 miles before end of weekend, and then go on to strobing and jetting. - But who knows what little surprises I might encounter before then......
Looking forward to seeing some numbers too! Get it run in carefully, hopefully no seizing at all. 2% is usually enough oil for anything but to be really sure and on a new expensive engine the first 3 tanks should be 3%. Running it over rich allows space for the extra oil too. Everyone runs in their own way but for me after 200 miles I ride them freely but no long WOT sessions till about 500miles as you say. This is going to be quite a change from old faithful. It won't be lightning quick but it will go when needed. The beauty of this level of tune is that its a good compromise, fairly fast and revs freely but still pulls hard low down. Hopefully no big surprises and you will know for yourself by next week.
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
I put the bolt in last night, I'm clearing my decks of other jobs today, so I should have a good, uninterrupted run at it from Thursday onwards, but we all agree at this stage looking after the investment is more important than the timescale. I'm more relaxed about it all now that I've had the engine running.
Mainly good news this morning, but one problem for me to investigate, ponder and pick your brains: She started first kick this morning, and I went up and down the lane a few times, and all the gears are there and the clutch is close to spot on, so that's all good. I was aware of a rubbing noise, so didn't stray far. As planned I did a ten mile ride then headed home to investigate the rub, which I had thought was just my new brake shoes and would sort itself out after a spin, but it's actually the rear wheel rubbing – more than it was before (which I hadn't noticed, but can hear now), so I'll have to investigate next job. I'll make sure wheel and hub are tight (it was all torqued properly), and recheck tyre pressure (also just done), then remove them to see where it's been rubbing, but then I'm not really sure what to do; Could it just be the spacing of the hub? If the splines on the hub are worn would it go further onto the splines of the driveshaft? I need to sort this before I do more running in. I'm glad it wasn't an enginny noise I could hear, but I need to sort my hub out now. The engine seems great; no strange cluncks or grinds, all the gears are there and change smoothly, I stalled a couple of times, but just on the clutch when U-turning in the lane, which is just a tweak, and once I bumped it by just freewheeling and letting the clutch out, and once I needed a few kicks, so it's nothing to worry about. It doesn't idle without a tiny bit of throttle, so I need to adjust that a tad, and now I know my brake shoes weren't the rub I can tighten them a bit more too. It's less revvy and mad now I've got my gears and clutch tweaked, so I'm more in control of riding sedately for running-in - no repeat of unwanted wheelies! All's good, but any advice on investigating or solution to hub/wheel problem would be appreciated before I start rolling around in the garden, and hopefully ordering decent parts, sharpish if needed. Still very happy, but paused for a ponder and to see if there's any suggestions how to go about it...............
I have no problem with buying a new hub, but wonder where, or what makes, are reliable for top-quality; this is one of those parts where it would be easy to buy poor quality by mistake. (I'm not bothered about buggering up these tyres, but don't want to put new ones on unti lthis is sorted either).
Is it just the back plate of the hub?? Sometimes if they are not perfectly straight they will rub on the hub.
With the rear brakes, i usually prop up the rear of the scoot so the wheel rotates freely, then tighten the cable so the wheel can only just spin without rubbing. If you prop up the rear wheel of the ground you should also be able to hear any rubbing.
I also have the Aqua shoes on mine, thinking my old brake pads were worn. These new Newfren ones were a lot thinner than my old worn ones!! I wasnt that impressed tbh although they do work well enough.
Is it the tyre rubbing on the shock?? Move the centre bush of the rear shock mount towards the flywheel if so.
Sounds like the joys of an entirely new set up are going as usual
As Vespasco is saying, what the tyre is rubbing will determine the answer. Is it still the clutch cover? If it is the clutch cover it might be a dodgy rim, so try a different wheel.
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
Thanks chaps; I'll get onto that first thing in the morning – not really in the mood for it this afternoon (I'm cleaned-up and in the warm and dry now). I'll swap front-to-back, which is the same rim type, and I can also try the spare, which is a standard steel split-rim. I might have dented a rim; there's enough pot-holes round here, but I don't recall any big bumps. New rims are on the shopping list anyway (and tyres), so I'm not worried about money on this. While it's off, I'll have a proper look at where it's rubbing (clutch cover/swing-arm/rear shock), and also whether it's the full circumference of the tyre, or just 90º like before – I can hear it sweeping, so I don't think it's the whole rotation. It has to be the rim and hub as main suspects because they are off the old engine, which was showing signs of the same, although I didn't hear it on that one before. If I go out again and it's still doing it, I'll go on to looking more closely at hub and backplate, if it's the shock, I'll move it over a tad if possible. I'm not stressed about it, and I have a plan of action to work through, thanks; I'll report back after a bit of a better look.........
No worries, just teething problems; and I'll keep doing snagging lists until there's nothing left that needs doing – she's going to be a beauty!
There were two causes of the rub: 1) The rear rim or tyre are out of kilter a tad; just enough for the edge of the tyre to rub on the clutch cover only – for the same 90º potion of the circumference as before. I've swapped front-to-back and that's sorted that one. Whether I use my spare on the front, or the one I've taken off the rear, I'm undecided – I'm going to get my new rims and tyres pretty soon anyway, and I'm only running-in, so not too worried too much either way. It feels fine on the front whilst riding. 2) The hub was rubbing on the backplate as well – this was the noise, not the tyre/clutch cover. I took the hub off and cleaned and rubbed-down inside the rim/edge that was rubbing, and I did the same with the edge of the backplate. Putting it back to see if it ran freely I did notice the two edges were out of alignment at the bottom, so I did some fine adjustment of the blackplate with a big rubber mallet; unconventional but effective. I put the distortion of the backplate down to me dragging the assembled engine about, and it being bent a bit then, so I've just straightened it to stop the rub. I'm also going to get a new hub anyway; a couple of the studs are slightly suspect (which might have warped the rim?), so I'll replace the hub and see if I can replace the studs on the old one and keep for a spare, which I think I can. Anyway, after another ten mile run this morning the tyre rub and the hub noise are both completely gone. Whilst I was rolling about in the garden I gave the clutch and brakes another tweak and they are now perfect too (the new brake shoes were not rubbing, so I've got them really nice and tight now), and the gears are nice and smooth too - the shifter markings are slightly out, but that isn't important at the moment; I'd rather leave the gear cables alone as it's all changing nicely. I forgot to adjust my idle; I'll do that in the morning before I set off on my first running in proper miles. It was a good plan to get some teething problems out of the way during the end of this week because now I can do some miles over the weekend while the roads are a bit quieter. - Petrol and air first thing (and a big bag of tools for the journey)................
All's good; I'm happy, thanks for all the help and advice.
The glory is all hidden really, I've been more concentrating on the engine than the looks; I did the rust at the end of last year, but the paint is all a bit tatty all over, which doesn't really bother me. Next year I think I'll strip it down a bit for the summer, without the rack and flyscreen, but It's an old scooter that looks like an old scooter (with a decent engine!!). The only photo I took this morning, other than up inside, so I could see where the rub was, is a blurry one up on bricks in the pits in my special al fresco workshop:
Good luck over the weekend. Resist the urge to open it up. Make sure you are riding it and not the other way around. It's going to be a bit lively compared to the old engine
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
...just knocked-out a cheeky 100km before breakfast. Cold and wet and windy, but no problems with scooter or engine. No out-on-the-road photos, Loone, but I did a soggy selfie when I got home:
Tragedy: After 80km this morning, there was a sudden clunking and rattling!!
That's it then; there's either bits of ring scraping up my new barrel, or bits of cog flying around in the gearbox – looks like I'm pushing it home and putting the old engine back in for the Winter....................
Or is it? …......so I pulled over and pushed it out of the road to have a think, which was when I realised I'd lost my stand spring, and the noise was just the stand dragging on the ground and bouncing about – panic over!!!! Bungeed-up for the ride home; my arse and hands needed a break anyway; we had our first frost this morning and I was on my spare gloves because yesterday's ones were still soggy. I've been carrying a back-pack full of tools, and all I needed was a bit of dirty old bungee that I've had in my bike kit for 30 years. Gonna put me muffs on, play with me plug and carb, order a spring & clip and call it a day.................
Running-in total = 180km (first target 320km, then 800km). (Not as much as expected, but better than the prospect of the engine in broken bits already, which is where I thought I was an hour ago).
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
How does it feel? - Good question...... Good enough that I'm thinking I could probably give it a bit more, and that it feels and sounds better if I do push the limit up a tad. - The rough, spluttery running is most noticeable at lower revs. Nothing is happening that's worrying me, but it could certainly be running smoother – I'm sure it's all just carb-tweaks though. I still haven't adjusted my idle or looked at my plug because it is going so well and I had hoped to do my 200 miles today then go on to that. So, at low revs in 2nd and 3rd it does dip a bit, but I just have to open it up a bit past that point; I'm using lots of clutch or neutral and keeping the revs up at junctions and U-turns to avoid stalling, when I stop to park up it stalls before I get a chance to switch the ignition off, but I've been trying to turn the fuel off first to avoid leaving it flooded to maybe help with starting. Because of that, I haven't yet got the right amount of choke/throttle sorted when I'm starting it; the first time it started 1st kick, full choke after some days standing, yesterday I gave it too much choke and had a bit of trouble starting (very wet), this morning I tried no choke, but I couldn't get it started until I turned the fuel off and kicked it over with throttle open – then it started 1st kick (very cold). But it fires straight up, and sounds and feels really lively, and pulls away lovely – as long as I keep the revs up to keep it ticking over before I pull away, and past that first dip. When riding, I'm using a much smaller (fractions of a) twist of the throttle to get similar response to the old engine. By that I mean that I'm tending to think it isn't much different until I remember I'm not whacking the throttle wide open all the time like I tended to do on the other engine. I have been slipping into 4th a couple of times, just to keep the revs down without backing off. I'm really trying to keep it low; my top GPS yesterday was 55kph, and today it was 60kph, which is about 5,500 rpm in 3rd, but more likely 4,000 rpm in 4th. I know not to let it labour in low revs, but a couple of times on flats or slight downhills it felt like 4th was the best thing to do. I've mainly been doing a loop through a village with a U-turn up a lane one end, and a roundabout at the other, slowing down through the village and a little incline up and down, and one long straight up and one down, so there's plenty of variation. There is one other hill in particular this morning that I noticed it did easily in 3rd, where I usually give it a bit of welly in 2nd to tackle it. I am carrying extra tools and fuel too. I have resisted opening it up to see what more there is; I'll just do my miles patiently now and, while I'm doing them, thinking forward to next summer......... There's a couple of jobs I keep meaning to do, but have put off the last few days, either to get on get some miles done, or because I've come into the warm and dry and not been bothered to go back out to it; I'll do those in the next few days while I'm waiting for my stand spring, they are: wind in my idle, have a look at and clean/change plug, sort out intermittent fault on CHT gauge (I think one of the extension cable plugs is loose), mark throttle positions on my handlebars – (I'll be brave and do without muffs for a littler longer, so as to give some more precise info on that). A couple more two-hour sessions and the first phase is done. That's probably a bit long-winded, but I'm not sure what you're after really; to me it feels like there is nothing to worry about and that the carb needs a good tweak. I've been venturing further from home and growing in confidence in it not to go bang. Apart from this morning's nasty little surprise, which was totally unexpected because it was going so well and the problem was sudden; I'm just sitting, listening, feeling, and doing my miles.....
Once the idle is set properly it will start first kick, hot or cold. The main jet is hopefully just a bit too big and causing the low range flat. Once 200 miles are done, get it all dialled in properly and do what you like (but not too much of it at once).
You can still use 4th gear, just keep it in 3rd more than usual. 75kph in 4th and about 55kph in 3rd, is ok to do at the moment. I think it will beat the old engine in every situation. Maybe even on economy over hilly terrain, as there's no need to thrash it up the hills now. I'm sure you'll check it all out and let us know, once its run in.
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
Si, just noticed your rear shock, i have the matching front one on my p200, how do you find the quality? my scooter seems very bouncy even though i have ajusted it up, could it be my rear shock thats causing it? it does feel like the front though.
Im glad to see the motor in and running before i head off for my hols. You probably got up at the same time as i went to bed! And in this weather too! Good work mate. Get that carb set up nice and you'll be grinning from 'ere to 'ere. Sounds like its pulling well too even with the extra weight. Watch out for those local farmers, you might come out one day and see a plough hooked up to the back of your scooter! Keep listening to that motor, get used to those sweet tones. Not necessarily for knocks and clunks but its the best indication of how the motor is actually running, well for me anyway, along with the CHT gauge. Now you can reap the benefits of all those long hours of patient, hard work. Excellent news. Ride safe and enjoy
I've been expecting the tractor comments to resurface, so here's one I prepared earlier:
Enjoy your holiday adventure; hope you keep us updated!
Doulsy, It's too soon for me to say really, a definite improvement on the 30 year-old bit of rusty mank I replaced, but it's brand new. I expect it to soften a bit and I'll wind it up a bit then, but at the moment I'm happy with a pretty mid-range budget shock. I do have the matching front to put on some time soon, so we'll see then how that feels.
Pxguru,I see the speed/gears you've said are around the 5,000 rpm range for now, which is pretty much where I was too. I believe it will be a lot easier to do the rest of the running-in if I can go that extra 15kph in 4th gear now, so that's good. I think when I did it before I was either doing half-throttle, or 45mph; doesn't matter now, anyway. I'll use my GPS speedo, and stick to those: 55kph in 3rd and 75kph in 4th. Thanks for the feedback. (With old engine, I was pretty much revving it right-up in 3rd to about 80kph on my speedo, which is about 70-75kph, which is about 6,500rpm, then really slowly getting much more out of it in 4th, – as my recent 0-60s showed; just roughly, for interest).
I'm still editing, but wanted to reply to vespasco if he's tripping out soon..................
Last Edit: Oct 26, 2015 12:32:12 GMT by sime66: tidying numbers
an sime ,when ya order a new stand spring remember to order some new shorts/long-johns ,as i'm sure the pair you was wearing are beyond washing . the joys of "shake-down" runs .you'll know its ready for more throttle when ya stop listening intently to the engine an it starts being a unconscious/seat-of-pants action instead .H
if its got wheels n makes a noise I wanna play with it, skateboards included coz "skate-punks rule",
I was gonna do Captain Sensible – Happy Torque, but thought better of it when I saw the old video. Maybe this though:
Sounds like you had a bit of a lost weekend, vespasco; well done!
Extra “shake-down” trouser clips:
Now, enough messing around; I'll get back to the job in hand:
I was at the wanting to push it along a bit stage, H; just doing this 8km lap through the village, trying to do a perfect smooth lap, occasionally deviating on a longer route round the country lanes to break the monotony or find a bigger hill, and my mind wandering a bit to next year's adventures, and also more and more feeling it wanted to be in 4th and a bit more gas as my laps improved, then clutter, clang, scrape..............it's all turned to merde. (Fortunately round 'ere there's plenty of manure on the road, so no one noticed, but morale took a dip). Anyway; that's over and done with – I have a couple of in the garden-pits jobs to get her ready for the 2nd half of running-in; the spring should be here tomorrow. I've got the nod to give it a few more beans in 4th to about 5,000 rpm (15kph more – I wrote 10kph yesterday in my haste to post), so that's just time doing miles now. Then I'll be asking questions about tweaking the carb properly; not ready for that yet, but the first thing I'm unsure of is whether I'm doing plug chops after 200 miles (which I don't think I can really), or just dropping my main a bit and screwing it in a bit, or leaving my big main and just adjusting my mix and idle at that stage. I'll be back to 2% then too. The whole carb adjusting thing is not a strong point of mine, and is something I'd really like to get more confident/proficient at whilst setting this one up. That can wait though; one job at a time, and I've still got some of my first 200 miles to do, but I only got the barrel back three weeks ago, so it's progressing just fine, and I'm pretty relaxed about it all now..............
Its not worth doing plug chops if youre running deliberately rich. Theres no harm in looking, just to check its not white but i think youll be fine. Plug chops will almost go hand in hand with tweaking the card but no WOT plug chops just yet. Theres no real harm in setting the carb up and running in @ 2% straight from the off, so long as you take it easy of course. Although the 3% and larger MJ is definitely a good idea After your first 200 miles Id be looking at keeping the jets rich and tweaking the adjusting screws to get it as smooth as you can. Slowly slowly you can really fine tune that carb and maybe even the ignition too if needed. The more tweaking you do, the easier it will become. I always think that if after the first 100 or so miles of pottering around, then its gonna be ok.
Now, or very soon, would be a good time to retorque everything. Very important! All your crankcase bolts, including the ones behind the stator, head nuts, spark plug, wheel, hub, carb nuts, etc, etc. Check the air box screw too but i must admit that i get a litte reluctant to take the carb off if everything looks, sounds and feels ok
I think you could offer these guys a better alternative... I know how much you like riding in extreme conditions
Once you are up to the 200miles the bicycle clips can come off ;)If its ride-able then I would leave the main jet where it is for another 200miles. Run it with a tank of 2% for a while, then get the idle jet and progression set up perfectly. I suggest the full WOT plug chopping starts another 200miles after that. The idle/progression circuit is the usual cause of most heat seizing so, important to get that really correct first and long before getting onto the really fun bit at WOT. Once you get to 200 miles I think stepping it up to 6000 rpm on occasion wouldn't be going too far. If you do accidentally blat it keep an eye on the temperature. Sounds like your engine building has come a long way in the past year or so. We'll see how good once the figures are posted in a few weeks!
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR