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Post by fredperrybruce on Sept 7, 2014 19:40:27 GMT
Can anybody please advise me on what I need to buy for my MK 1 PX please (DR 180) I have not yet pulled my clutch out to check but pretty sure I have a 20 tooth clutch, my engine revs like hell in 4th and top end is 55mph at a push My pulling off is great and hill's not a problem I'm desperate now to get a new clutch but am mega confused in what type to get for what I need. I'm looking for a nice cruising scoot something that would hold 60mph all day long and still have some guts on the hills I've seen this on ebay and was wondering if I was on the right track?? www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VESPA-COSA-200-CLUTCH-ASSEMBLY-22-TOOTH-EARLY-3-PLATE-TYPE-HIGHER-RATIO-/291056610415?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item43c4536c6fAll comments welcome,, thanks |
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Post by henri on Sept 7, 2014 20:16:28 GMT
ya need to count to count ya primary teeth first , if ya dont know what ya got your guessing what to get ,ok if ya rich enuff to buy cosa clutches at 100 a pop just to find its whats there already , H
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Post by sime66 on Sept 7, 2014 20:25:48 GMT
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Post by fredperrybruce on Sept 7, 2014 20:38:14 GMT
Anychance of letting us know what your jetting is SIME66 please I'm also running a 24/24 carb |
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Post by fredperrybruce on Sept 7, 2014 20:42:53 GMT
I was looking on the SIP website and they sell a complete DR180 setup which includes a 22 tooth clutch gear??
I've been playing with my jetting for a couple of week's now I'm running a 112 main with BE3 160 it's been a'lot of trial and error and still haven't got it right .
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Post by sime66 on Sept 7, 2014 20:48:21 GMT
the main I've settled on is a 120. I won't be tweaking it again this year, other than keeping an eye on my plug (B7). If you want the whole thing; I have a note of it, which I'll scan now, rather than type:  |
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Post by sime66 on Sept 7, 2014 20:59:00 GMT
I'd let the others have their input.
Mine is a PX150EFL (1983). when I got it there was a DR180 kit, but only standard exhaust and 20mm carb. I've fitted the SR2 and put the 24mm carb on. BUT when I changed my clutch, I replaced a 21T with a 21T; that might have been an opportunity missed, I don't know enough to say. I'll draw your attention to the last link in my previous post, in which Nik was advising me on this very question. As a result of that, I decided to leave it alone. I'll keep an eye on this though to see what the others reckon.
Again, I only know what I've picked up recently, so I'm not confident to advise, but your 112 seems small to me. Incidentally mines non-autolube. I had a 116 in the 20mm carb before changing to 24mm. I'll have a better read back through it all in the morning.
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Post by fredperrybruce on Sept 7, 2014 21:01:01 GMT
Cheers sime66 my selection of jets are pretty poor and I'm jumping up and down sizes way to much at the moment. I've gone from a 125 straight down to a 118 then to 112 which isn't great!!! I'm going to buy some more jets and start at 120 and see how it goes. I have noticed a huge difference running with a 112 it's pretty Ummmm.......sh*te. Thanks for the advice and posts Sime66
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Post by fredperrybruce on Sept 7, 2014 21:07:00 GMT
I had my DR180 first set up with a 20/20 carb and Pinasco exhaust 112 main and to be honest it pretty much runs the same now with a 24/24 carb and a SIP road just a better power band from the exhaust. I'm also on a NON auto lube . Mines a 1985 model B reg. (just thought I would say)
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Post by sime66 on Sept 7, 2014 21:20:48 GMT
Sounds like you need to do some proper plug chopping, and get your carb set up right to give it a decent chance, and make sure you don't seize. Do a search in general for plug chopping, and/or look back through my threads. when I seized and changed my piston and rings I had a lot of good advice on here. My last go tonight, otherwise I'll stay up all night reading stuff once my curiosity is stirred, I'll quickly find that thread: vespa.proboards.com/thread/3231/running-plug-after-215-milesYou can't really be jumping up and down like that; start rich, chop properly, and come down on main if needed - I think that's what the others will say. There's also some words of great wisdom from pxguru here, which I keep intending to take a moment to read more thoroughly, digest, and try to understand: vespa.proboards.com/thread/4310/running-rich-px200e |
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Post by sime66 on Sept 8, 2014 6:50:32 GMT
One thought overnight, for the sake of comparison; I've had a quick squizz through your old threads (have you changed scooters or got a second one?) and can't find/don't recall if you've drilled your air filter?
If not:
1) You would have a smaller main jet, (but still not that small).
2) I think you should consider drilling it, (then set up your carb properly).
---
I'm still curious to see what advice you get about clutch too; I think you'll find there's more work than just changing the number of teeth.
(See that post above about changing gearing, porting etc., which put me off).
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Post by fredperrybruce on Sept 8, 2014 17:17:07 GMT
I've changed scoots Sime66 the one I'm using now has a p200 filter with holes,,, I found a 120 main stuck it in this morning and made not much difference to be honest. I just can't figure out why my engine screams at 55mph like it's gonna blow up..  It's only really happy and sound's comfortable when cruising at 40-45mph which is pretty poor for the setup I have |
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Post by henri on Sept 8, 2014 18:16:16 GMT
when its warmed up an ya on a flat road whats it sound like if ya crack the throttle wide open (wot), does it rev freely with a "rintingting" type of noise or is it more of a "bwoar" ,first ones right to leanish ,second one rich/bogging , an how are you judging the speed , by sat nav ,inaccurate vesp speedo or guess/experience ,
from the figures youve given it sounds like somebodys stuck a 20 tooth clutch in ,whats the acceleration like ,really fast acceleration low top end =20/21 tooth clutch , struggles to accel an has to change down for mild hills but high top speed =23 tooth p200 clutch , with your kit n cases i think its a 22 tooth ya need , but theres a load of other stuff that could be causing it to lack top end , you need to check through it methodically , timing/engine health/clutch n primary ratios , as somebody might of been swapping fourth gears around trying to get more out the kit ,an then carb tune an jetting last, proper plug chops ,closest to you is prob the eastern road ,wouldnt try it on "murder mile" in hilsea , or even up on portsdown ,ya need a road you can hold full throttle on for 2-3 mins ,at least a min of 1.5 minutes ,preferably flattish n with a handy lay-by/pub car park to coast into, i think i'd start with the 120 an work down ,prob end on a 116 ,but all engines are individual ,H
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Post by sbwnik on Sept 8, 2014 19:12:22 GMT
It screams to 55 because that's what the gearbox is built for, although I'd expect it to be revving that hard at nearer 60. Time to upgear  |
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Post by pxguru on Sept 9, 2014 7:59:42 GMT
A GPS speed of 54mph is 6000 rpm on the 20 tooth. If you could get that up to 7000rpm it would be GPS speed of 63mph. Or about 75mph on the vespa speedo!
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Post by fredperrybruce on Sept 9, 2014 17:20:26 GMT
I'm using a SIP Digital speedo to get my readings but even if the things given me false readings it not going any faster than what I said 50-55mph. I'm gonna set my GPS app up on phone weekend and get a reading from that just to see how far out I really am!!.
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Post by sime66 on Sept 17, 2014 17:23:32 GMT
What speeds did you get on your GPS?
Did you look at the clutch you have now?
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Post by fredperrybruce on Sept 17, 2014 17:33:22 GMT
GPS speeds on phone taken and they are only few mph out on the SIP speedo.
My engine will scream at 55mph but I don't dare push anymore. Only sound's comfortable when cruising at 45ish
Have not yet pulled clutch out to check but am getting clutch tools week to do so!! sooner the better
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Post by sime66 on Sept 17, 2014 17:50:27 GMT
Are you up to pulling your clutch out, or do you need some guidance with that? Can you remind us what you scooter is now? (I lost track before; I know it's a DR180, but on what engine?) we can do the gearing calculator from my other post, which compares well with my DR180: www.scooterhelp.com/tuning/vespa.gear.calc.htmlpxguru has said A GPS speed of 54mph is 6000 rpm on the 20 tooth. If you could get that up to 7000rpm it would be GPS speed of 63mph.sbwnik has said It screams to 55 because that's what the gearbox is built for, although I'd expect it to be revving that hard at nearer 60. Time to upgearI think we need to know if you have a 20 tooth, in which case we know it can be increased at least to a 21 because mines a 21. Bear in mind, there's much more experienced chaps here; I'm just trying to get your problem moving again.  |
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Post by fredperrybruce on Sept 20, 2014 12:48:56 GMT
Hi Sime66,,, just taken the clutch out (first time) and counted the teeth and found out it's a 20 tooth,3 plate early type clutch .
I have a digital Rev counter on my SIP speedo and when in 4th going 45-50 my rev indicates 7300-500 not sure if that's right, but by the amount of noise it's making it can't be that far off.
Just out of interest what revs should by engine be hitting when the engine is just idling, my speedo reads 1500-1700 rpm.
It could be my speedo's not been set up right!!
My scoot is a PXE 125 1985 with a DR 177 kit
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Post by sime66 on Sept 20, 2014 13:31:43 GMT
Mate, as you’ve seen from my naïve questions on my other gearing/power thread, I’m verging on being out of my depth with this too, so I’m learning with you really, but: We have the same set up and mines running fine with a 21 tooth, so I reckon you could too; maybe a 22 tooth - I don’t know. We need to check if your gears (not clutch) are the same as mine, but I put our engines into the calculator and they did come out the same – I don’t remember if I kept the reults or not; I’ll have a look later, and maybe someone else can say if they’re the same (EFL 125 & early EFL 150). Using your 4th gear 45-50mph 7,300-7,500; lets have a check: So, if this Scooterhelp calculator is right, and if I’m reading it right, then the speed/revs you gave above do seem to be wrong, but I cannot say why that might be; I’m at the limit of what I’ve picked up on the subject so far. Mine does not sound worrying at 100kph on my speedo, which is more like 90, which is 56mph; there's more there too if I want it, but I'm happy with that really most of the time. – And that does tie in perfectly with 6000rpm on a 21 tooth. (see below): With a 21 tooth, you should get:  With a 22 tooth, you should get:  I also do not know what idling revs should be (how does it sound to you?); I could look it up, but you’ll probably beat me to it this weekend. – Let me know when you’ve found out though!  Maybe it is your speedo; is it the old or new SIP speedo? I’ve never played with one, but I belive the V2 is much more reliable. Do note that any or all of the above might well be b*ll*cks – I do keep saying I don’t know this subject well.  |
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Post by fredperrybruce on Sept 20, 2014 13:58:14 GMT
Thanks Sime66 ,,, I had just been looking at the link you posted www.scooterhelp.com/tuning/vespa.gear.calc.htmlI had the same outcome also so it's now the decision on weather I choose the 21 or the 22 tooth,, I'm thinking the 22 as that's what SIP recommend. Now I also have the decision on either buying a expensive New Cosa or a stick with a original early 3 plate one which I've been told are just a strong?? I'm, thinking my engine has more modification's than I first thought. I've only owned this scoot for a few months and have just spoken to someone who knew the seller and said that the DR kit had been match ported amongst other stuff. But gears where never touched? Strangely That's probably why the engine has lot's of power but no gearing to match Idling RPM is in the range of 1100-1300rpm My Speedo is a the MK 1 version |
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Post by pxguru on Sept 21, 2014 4:54:56 GMT
fpb, If you rev counter is correct then thats some big clutch slip you have Did it stink when you took it out? If its an old 3 plate then its no surprise. I adjust to tick over at 900 with clutch pulled in and lights and indicators on. Just for normal road use the gearing should be set so that it maxes out at about 500 rpm less in 4th than it can rev to in 3rd. I am certain you will need to fit at least a 21 tooth. |
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It's only really happy and sound's comfortable when cruising at 40-45mph which is pretty poor for the setup I have 
