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Post by vespaskin86 on Aug 18, 2014 17:08:07 GMT
hi all im having problems when changing from 2nd to 3rd gears at speed and highish revs it goes stiff and wont change any idea what causing it? possible cruxiform change needed? or is it a simple fix like needing to adjust my clutch cable? any help be gratefull for
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Post by kru251 on Aug 18, 2014 21:30:17 GMT
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Post by sbwnik on Aug 18, 2014 22:58:50 GMT
I'd just start with tightening the clutch cable. Simple as that.
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Post by vespaskin86 on Aug 18, 2014 23:00:12 GMT
hope so i'll give it ago as i got sae30 in use, if it doesnt cure it would you then lean towards a clutch problem? what made me think cruciform is it sometimes jumps into gear then again that could be a clutch issue too if it not fully engaging into gear then jumps into it. just hope its not going to be a big problem to solve.. |
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Post by vespaskin86 on Aug 18, 2014 23:01:23 GMT
I'd just start with tightening the clutch cable. Simple as that. cheers thought about it just wondered what ppl think |
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Post by sbwnik on Aug 18, 2014 23:02:55 GMT
Second to third is classic clutch cable symptoms. SAE 30 is what Piaggio recommend, it's what I'd stick with.
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Post by partanen on Aug 19, 2014 5:46:01 GMT
Piaggio recommend gl-4, last 40 years. That's what I have at the moment, but I have some gear change difficulties when engine is warm. Should I try sae 30, what you think? When engine is cold everything is fine.
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Post by sime66 on Aug 19, 2014 6:28:15 GMT
I’m also starting to think my clutch needs a final tweak before it’s perfect – my gears are also really good when cold, but start to struggle a bit as it warms up. I know there’s plenty of suggestions about new/cheap corks swelling/expanding too much, but I have new Newfren ones. I’m thinking a little basket filing might be the answer, but am still at the stage of seeing if I can rectify it with cable adjustment first. I reckon I might have the clutch out and stripped one more time before it’s sorted. I think we agreed before that Kru's magic oil might be a good idea, but it isn't itself a 'cure' for a clutch problem. (The debate raged for a while and is currently dormant)  |
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Post by vespaskin86 on Aug 19, 2014 9:58:10 GMT
gunna adjust the cable later at work test it on way back see if any improvement and take it from there i'll post my findings
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Post by henri on Aug 19, 2014 11:00:57 GMT
an a oil change wouldnt harm it aswell ,check the drained oil for shrapnel/metal ,old oil loses its propertys an goes thinner,meaning when hot its too thin, wykes the builders merchant do sae30 oil in there garden mower section ,600ml for 4 quid, challenge anybody else to find it cheaper anywhere else .a trip to boots for there biggest baby feeding syringe an oil change n fettle of cable an probably your problems solved ,if the cruccy was on way out it would affect all gear changes not just 3rd to 4th,
partenen i dont know about gl-4 its not a classification i know , sae i understand the "weights" of oil,but far north where you are i think i'd run different oils between spring/autumn an hot summer, the temp range is too much for 1 grade of oil to handle IMO, as for winter if ya real hardcore/crazy you'd have to look into snowmobile oils ,an you saying ok wen cold not when hot can be thinning oil or expanding clutch plates or just a little tweek of cable adjustment ,so it warms into the perfect spot,might make cold changes more crunchy tho, H
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Post by partanen on Aug 22, 2014 17:00:49 GMT
GL-4 is actually gear oil. Piaggio recommends it at their italian user's manual. I guess it protects the gear cogs better than SAE 30 engine oil. Then again my 10w-30 Motorex GL-4 synthetic gear oil might be too fancy for Vespa's gearbox and clutch. Maybe I should try more traditional GL-4 gear oil. I think it's a bit odd that gear changing is smooth when engine is cold, and gets trickier when engine is warm. I don't use my scooter at winter. It would not be nice. |
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Post by henri on Aug 22, 2014 18:58:13 GMT
fit a ski on front ,it will impress the girls , if the problem occurs when warm ,too thin oil/expanding cable going out of adjustment/swelling corks in clutch/an a few more involved things , i'd change to english weight oil as even in summer finlandish weather isnt going to be close to italian ,english conditions would be closer, an adjust ya clutch when hot an put up with cold gear crunches ,will encourage ya to fully warm scoot up before riding off , ya engine will last twice aslong aswell . H
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Post by partanen on Aug 22, 2014 20:21:16 GMT
Summer temperatures here are like italian winter temperatures. 15 to 30 celsius. So I'm still thinking that SAE 10w-30 would be good around here.
Gears aren't actually crunching, but gear lever is harder to turn when engine is warm. I just need to use more force to change gears. That's why I wonder should I change the oils, or lubricate cables. Or then I'll do both.
I twist the throttle gently when engine is cold. I'm not sure if engine really warms up when stationary, as it's air cooled. Maybe it reaches operating temperature sooner if I took of as soon it runs properly without choke.
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Post by partanen on Aug 25, 2014 11:28:21 GMT
I chose SAE 30 lawnmower oil and gear changing is easier now. It's stiffer when cold, but better when warm. Maybe too fancy oil caused slight clutch dragging, I'm not sure.
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Post by henri on Aug 25, 2014 13:48:07 GMT
an how long is it since ya pulled the gearchange tube n greased an cleaned it ,it all helps for a easyier time ,h
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Post by partanen on Aug 25, 2014 17:55:46 GMT
I replaced all cables during last winter. I've ridden about 2000km after that. It was some kind of teflon based grease, but I'm not sure how good it could be.
If you pull used inner cable out can you ever push it back in?
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Post by henri on Aug 26, 2014 16:06:11 GMT
i meant the tube in headset with grip on end , if ya pull a inner out often they wont go back in coz of damage done by trunnions clamping them, have done it in emergencys an re-used a old cable but its not reccomended , H
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Post by partanen on Aug 26, 2014 20:55:32 GMT
Oh, sorry. New term for me. Cleaning and lubricating that thing is so easy that I could do it in anyway. Although I did it last winter if I remember right.
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Post by vespaskin86 on Sept 2, 2014 22:20:06 GMT
hi a little update i've tightened my clutch cable after it seemed to cure it for a few days as it stretched a little since i put it in, not much but enougth maybe to effect it, but the problem came back after a few days maybe a week so on my next day off whilst checking it out underneath i noticed i had a oil leak but not really a leak as such but its seeping from somewhere under the engine near the clutch arm from a gasket i believe. as you can tell from my description i dont know my way around a engine and cant tell you which part but any ways when opening the empty screw to put the new sae30 in nowt came out quite suprised by this as i filled it up maybe in feb and it doesnt look like its seepd that much out looking at all the sh*t on my engine and blobs on my pipe. i didnt try the gl 4 as its too thin from my understanding i thought it seep through quicker and be pointless trying it but any way it seemed to cure it again
to replace the effected gasket would i have to drop the engine and split it? hopefully not as i'd rather not take it to a garage as i wont learn anything that way and rather try to fix it under someone's supervision who isnt going to sting me £££ and not learn owt
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Post by sbwnik on Sept 2, 2014 23:21:35 GMT
No need to drop the engine to do any work like that, I think another simple 'how to' may be needed here! I only ever take the engine out for fairly major work (bearing, seals etc).
In short though -
Drop the engine oil.
Remove the cylinder and flywheel cowls.
Remove the flywheel.
Unfasten the head (remember to undo the nuts in the order 1-3 -2 -4 going around the head to minimise any risk of warping).
Remove the two nuts that hold the gear selector box in place.
Rotate the gear selector on the handlebars past fourth gear, and this should push the selector box away from the engine. Wriggle it off.
Remove the lower suspension bolt.
Slacken the main exhaust bolt, then unclamp the exhaust manifold.
Thread two nuts onto each cylinder stud, lock them up against each other, then turn the lower nut to pull the stud out.
Once all four studs are out, turn the flywheel so that the piston is at the bottom of the cylinder, then lift the cylinder off.
Unfasten the stator plate, having marked the timing by drawing a line across the edge of it, and onto the casing.
Unfasten all the nuts that hold the casing halves together, not forgetting the one that Piaggio fitted the wrong way round for some reason.
Press down on the kickstart and the engine halves should now separate.
Remove all remaining gasket, apply a thin layer of grease to the engine block where the gasket sits, then reverse the above to reassemble.
Don't forget a small blob of grease to hold the loose spring inside the gearbox.
It's easy and straight forward.
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Post by vespaskin86 on Sept 3, 2014 0:01:26 GMT
cheers sbwnik er not sure its that easy surely, maybe im lacking confidence but after w.o.t rally i'll attempt it also by then i will have sourced a flywheel extractor as alot of it makes sense and possibly doable even for me.
by the main exhaust bolt do you mean the bolt that is on the what i think is the swing arm underneath the scoot where my revolver bracket is sat on? if so this maybe a problem as when i bought the scoot i didnt realise that it was sheard off at the end til putting the revolver on which made it a ball ache if not bonus
sorry if i sound a bit mechanically thick but gotta start and learn somewhere
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Post by sbwnik on Sept 3, 2014 0:20:19 GMT
I wasn't born with a spanner in my hand* It's a lot of words to describe not a lot of work. I'd expect you to have it done in less than an hour to disassemble, maybe two to put it back together. The last one I did with the engine in place, I replaced the flywheel side seal (it can be done, I normally don't) in less than two hours from draining the oil to refilling it. That's with having removed the clutch to enable me to 'encourage' the crank out. That was the hardest bit, no room to press it out properly. But I have done it before  The secret is to have a bit of patience. If you struggle with something, go and stretch your legs and come back ten minutes later. As for the exhaust, you're actually at an advantage - remove the two rubber mounted bolts and drop the exhaust off the manifold. That can stay attached to the cylinder. *It was a pair of circlip pliers. |
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Post by vespaskin86 on Sept 4, 2014 2:09:51 GMT
lol no one is and if people was born with a tool mine be a chefs knife im not much use with anything else.. i've changed my thought process as it sounded intimidating at 1st as it the most i've had to do and undertake. i've thought it through as i would with a unusual recipe may sound daft to you and others but it made it make sense and not as scary maybe some sort of similarities too.. cheers i'll let you know how i get on when i get round to it you been loads of help and im kind of getting excited about it now
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Post by kru251 on Aug 12, 2020 21:20:48 GMT
Old thread but I thought I'd revisit it. Still using ATF in clutch. Still a light change. No sign of premeture wear 6 years on and 14,000km.
Sooooooooo?
Still a happy bunny!
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Post by kru251 on Aug 12, 2020 21:21:38 GMT
Old thread but I thought I'd revisit it. Still using ATF in clutch. Still a light change. No sign of premature wear 6 years on and 14,000km.
Sooooooooo?
Still a happy bunny!
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