I’ll make these points: - My speedo indicator warning light is not faulty, it is disconnected because of the wiring difficulties when converting between AC and DC indicators. It is quite complicated and there is a previous thread here: vespa.proboards.com/thread/3746/indicators-ongoing-slight-worth-sharing
- The buzzers I have certainly meet the requirements of the MOT for reasons pereviously discussed. - The fact that I have a non-working warning light on my speedo/dash might be a separate problem – nothing to do with whether or not I have buzzers - The various opinions on this subject don’t really matter to me; what is important is that I agree the interperetaion of the requirements with the nice man who is going to do my MOT. He is perfectly approachable (Kev-the-Mech), so what could possibly be more sensible than asking him if what I have is OK, or if I need to sort the speedo warning light. - I do have a plan up my sleeve to sort the speedo warning light, but it needs a bit of thinking about, it is this:
When switching from AC to DC it buggers up the speedo warning light, which previously flashed with the rear (red wire) circuit – it makes a short between left and right, so I disconnected it. My DC is not switched. When I was trying to sort it before, I asked about putting diodes in the circuit to stop the shorting between left and right, but had no reply, which is why I disconnected it and did separate with buzzers. Now I think the PX/Cosa buzzer arrangement has those diodes in the buzzer wiring (Henri, you have one, so you might be able to confirm). My thinking now is that I could use one of those (or make my own with diodes) to reconnect my speedo indicator warning light, and keep the buzzers, which I think are a better idea anyway. That’s if KtM reckons it’s important; if he doesn’t reckon it’s important, I am very happy indeed with the buzzers I have on my front indicators.
That’s the situation at present; my next step is to see if there even is anything that needs doing, which is a quick chat with the bloke up the road………………………..
I don't think that would work, the buzzer is an AC one.
SBW Nik - cynical about scooters since 1982, but still refusing to give them up as he hopes one day one of them will prove him wrong.
P200 Day-to-day and Rally bike 'One Careful Owner'
Cosa 200
About to start work on building that rarest of beasts, a Cosa chop. It's taken long enough to get this far, the P207 chop will have to wait a bit longer...
Assorted projects I REALLY need to crack on with
Including my wifes T5 Classic, hurry up and paint it!
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I have the DC buzzers fitted already - they will remain whatever I do. I don't understand how these buzzers don't short circuit left to right if they're AC - that's the problem I was having - it joins the circuits. The idea here was to use the wiring without the buzzer, or make similar with diodes, to make the speedo warning light work again. As I said, I might not even need to get it working again, I can find no specific mention of non-working dash warning lights. I'll find out later in week.
the problem i had with led indicaters was the warning lamp being "common" (like me) to both circuits an the amount of current to make it glow was making all indicaters work , was going to stick some diodes in but tried to suss out a circuit with some led's i had lying around first an it wouldnt work right,so i gave in an connected 1 side to a unused oil pressure light instead as a telltale ,my normally easygoing mot-guy wasnt impressed an thought he should fail it tho agreed if i went to vosa an argued the point that it was a telltale as per rules they might reverse the decision, came to a truce as he could pass it as indies were visible from the saddle . an on a cosa like nic says the buzzer is ac like a px ,an i havent found any diodes in the wiring so far an theres non listed in the diagrams ive found ,plenty of other weird stuff,like a rectifier (or rectum-fryer as i was taught)for dc supply for electric tap an horn ,all being stripped out an discarded ,tho there seems to be 3-4 different types of wiring used on cosa's so i might be wrong ,wouldnt be a first time . H
if its got wheels n makes a noise I wanna play with it, skateboards included coz "skate-punks rule",
just as a quick reply, while you're online, i'm glad you follow the point anyway. Have you noticed the point I made in my previous thread in January that an LML has two tell tales - left and right, for the same reason? I'll continue to think about it, but it's not a biggy........... I can easily(ish) put two tell tales in the toolbox top, but it won't change the fact that the one on the dash/speedo is there but not working.
If you take this as an example of what I'm thinking, not what I intend to buy: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORBIKE-INDICATOR-WARNING-BUZZER-A-MUST-HAVE-/250880648840?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3a69a6e688 If this is DC, (I asked him yesterday morning) there must be diodes to stop the short between left and right. If it is AC, how does it not create the short? In either case, why can't I swap the buzzer for a wire going to my old speedo tell tale? I'm not asking for an answer, just trying to show how I'm thinking.
... I've read yours thoroughly now, H; it sounds like you had the same sort of problem, and the same sort of solutions, none of which really solved it. I'm not desperate for an answer - just one of those things that I've been thinking about for several months, and don't need to fix until September. I got the subject going again because you both picked it up on my post for links to information for newcomers.
If you are curious to find a neat solution, then I did do a lot of investigation back in January, and I posted as I went. I've just re-read it, and it does explain the problem as I still see it. That post is here:
I didn't get a lot of interest at the time, which is why I settled on buzzers, but with a new brain on it we might get a finished job. The buzzers are good, but the non-working dash light isn't (I think). The interpretation of the wording is a separate matter to finding a neat solution, but at the risk of being diverted back into that debate, here is the wording:
I have a tell tale that doesn't function correctly (the old dash warning light), BUT I also have one (a pair of buzzers) that do work, and comply with the first part. That's what I'm going to ask KtM because his interpretation is what matters (that doesn't need to be an argument, nor do I expect that he will be difficult); at this point I will be happy to do what makes him happy, but my curious mind would also like to have a good answer too.
As an aside: I did a rectifier to make my loud DC horns work off my old handlebar AC horn switch (converting circuit to DC to use as a trigger for the horn relay). They said it couldn't be done, but it worked...................................................just once, then it melted!!!! Gave it up and put a switch for my left foot instead - much simpler. Don't want to go back into it; just your mention of the 'rectum-fryer' reminded me of a convoluted exercise that ended up back at the first obvious answer.
i reckon with a working buzzer an a friendly relationship with ya motter you'll have no probs ,it always helps if ya ask the questions a while before the test (1-2weeks)as it shows your preparing to "pass" an takes the pressure off the tester ,he can give friendly advice rather than during a mot being worried about the rules/his pass fail rate/or a vosa inspection. the new rules on cars say its a fail if warning lamps are on for anything ,aircon/seatbelt/oil , but people get passes by just removing the bulb when its a sensor/wiring fault ,maybe a small smiley face sticker over the indicater tell tale an working buzzer ,along with a honest-face reply off "its always been like that" will work with motter . depends on his mood/humour i guess, H
if its got wheels n makes a noise I wanna play with it, skateboards included coz "skate-punks rule",
Absolutely; a sensible chat is the way to go, and that's my intention as I said before.
But it was bugging me not knowing how those buzzers didn't short left and right circuits, so I've been looking into it. - It is diodes as I suspected. This little darlin' (which is probably as cheap as I could make it anyway), has diodes, and this one has an extra pair of wires with an LED, which I can snip off, and wire back into my speedo tell tale too:
I had problems with both the DC relay kicking in as soon as I turned ignition on, and indicator warning light flashing when indicators were off?? Had a play about the other day and wired in 2 green LEDs, one either side of speedo, as indicator warning lights.
It would seem that the normal warning bulb has enough draw to click the relay, it's fine now with the LEDs.
i'd done similar but when the high beam led kept blowing at higher revs/voltages swapped em back to bulbs for safety ,tho the intermittent use seemed to stop em blowing at higher than 12volts ,not a prob for you ,with ya fancy regulated 12volt dc stuff.still can make ya scratch ya head tho, am not keen on led's ,they confuse me at times .h
if its got wheels n makes a noise I wanna play with it, skateboards included coz "skate-punks rule",
I've now got my old dash tell-tale working correctly with DC indicators and hazards
My tame MOTter says if you have a tell-tale it must work; because warning lights on, or non-functioning dash lights are a fail. Buzzers are OK instead, but not if a non-functioning tell-tale is present, so fix or remove the tell-tale. It doesn’t matter if you don’t agree; for my MOT he has to be happy.
Fixing the tell-tale is easier than removing it, ‘cos I now have a simple answer, which works: - Joey, as discussed in January your problems were because standard AC wiring takes tell-tale circuit before indicator switch. I have previously disconnected that circuit; I can’t think of a simple way to make it work as it is. - My previous solution caused different problems due to crossing the L & R circuits after the switch, which is why I fitted two buzzers instead. - The answer is two 10p diodes, one on each circuit from front indicators, then combined to existing single tell-tale on dash, as sketch (I will be keeping the buzzers as well because I reckon they are better):
Didn't need to fanny about with speedo wiring; the existing wiring before junction box, (previously disconnected), was ideal:
