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Post by hinders on Apr 22, 2012 21:56:23 GMT
Apologies if this already exists , but it might be useful to have a section for all this 210. Seems like a very popular conversion , and be good to help each other out a bit. Mines new and runs nice (except for fuel pump lol). Attachments:
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Post by hinders on May 25, 2012 23:46:19 GMT
Hi guys (or girls) ,I've been experimenting with my malossi 210 for a few weeks now and I have got a great acceleration and pull in 1st 2nd and 3rd , but there aint much life in top gear. Will only do 70 ish with a lot of peruasion and a very long road/cliff. Have you got any experiences of this on your 210 or is this just how life is ? (All porting , casings , crank etc done) I have ported up from 116 to 148 main jet (made a huge difference) any suggestions ... PLEASE.
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Post by kru251 on May 26, 2012 6:53:16 GMT
How much do you weigh? Not being too personal but light weight rider helps (and no, I ain't and that's how I know having swopped around scoots with mates for a 'lets-have-a-go-on-your-scoot etc) In fourth what sort of revs are you pulling compared with second etc? Overgeared or is the scoot just a bit breathless top end?
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Post by pxguru on May 26, 2012 7:11:02 GMT
A man after my own heart The age old Malossi problem. Most guys change the 4th gear cog from a 35 tooth to a 36 (from a T5) and together with a decent compression (more than 10.5:1) there is just enough torque to get most back into the power...... goes fine but this doesn’t really fix anything. This is generally how life is. The real problem in my humble opinion is the Malossi 210 port timing is a little too peaky. This is not a job for the small testicled but with a 57mm crank the solution is to raise the four transfer ports by nearly 1mm (0.9mm) while keeping the roof entry flat and not chipping the Nicasil (at all). The exhaust port is in about the right place and boost ports optional (you don't really want to take extra risks). However, this isn't really a job for your average mod in a garden shed. From where you are already, there are two easy cheats that you can try to make it pull 4th a bit better; Raising the barrel with a 1mm packer and getting a skimmed flat head (like a Worb5 zero), timing I.T. mark and jetting rich as it will go on a cold day. Or if you want a screamer, a 60mm crank with a 1mm base packer and a few extra base gaskets, depending on how reckless you are with the squish band! Timing a gnat’s under the I.T. mark and jetting rich as it will go on a cold day. Both of these cheats will make it rev higher and pull better. The porting is the real solution but you need to have the right equipment for that. Well you did ask
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Post by hinders on May 26, 2012 17:42:15 GMT
Hi guys , great replies thanks for taking the time , yep about 12.5 stone and I did joke to someone that it would be cheaper to lose some pounds than retune. Sorry rev counter defunct so cant tell .......................yes I went for the T5 fourth gear as is usually recommended....but it revs lovely in 1,2,3 as I said but big dip in fourth and still struggles around 70 no matter how long the road is lol. I'm sure there is some adjustment in the jetting to be done if anyone has some advice ( as I've tried a few jets and been surprised at the difference). Pxguru , I've only had a it a while and all that work seems like it needs to be done when something next goes wrong ....and my testicles are way too small to tackle it myself. But you sound very knowledgeable and at least I know that my performance is "usual" . You know what its like , people claiming 85mph and mines not much faster at top end than my standard with a mickeck (remember them). Although I'm sure it's in there somewhere !
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Post by sbwnik on May 26, 2012 22:31:16 GMT
Something I've read before - run a 3,50 x 10 rather than the metric/auto 'equivilent'. They're slightly smaller which helps with the gear gap, though TBH at 12 1/2 stone you really shouldn't have any problems LOL
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Post by pxguru on May 27, 2012 10:54:31 GMT
I agree completely, your problems are worse than I imagined! At your weight and with a T5 4th already it should be flying and really doing 85 (indicated)! At the moment I would beat you from standing on my home tuned standard...lol Like many Malossi’s yours is all tuned for top end. Your main jet is already pretty big (and bigger means more bhp) so you have the power top end but you need to get some torque back to make it actually ride-able again. If you could actually get yours into the power in 4th it might even do 90! So you want a really easy cheat for now.......hmmm.......put a 350/10 on as Sbwnik rightly said, put the standard exhaust back on (down jet to match) and timing exactly on the I.T mark (important! no more no less). If you don’t want to ride around in silence, keep the "Mikek" and slip the barrel off quick, put 3 to 5 base gaskets on (up to 0.5mm) with your existing head (whatever it is, Malossi?). You will lose some of your un-usable bhp but it will pull 4th
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Post by sbwnik on May 27, 2012 11:58:22 GMT
Similar to above, but if you're changing the pipe, go for a SIP Road pipe. They pull a lot lower than than the Mickek (which I'd guess is the root of the problem) but lose a little top end.. But as you've not got any top end to start with, anything must be an improvement. BTW If you do all that work, I'd put money on my stock P2 giving it a good race over any distance. I'll pass you at petrol stations!
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Post by hinders on May 27, 2012 17:57:41 GMT
Hi guys , I think i mislead you , it doesnt have a Mikeck anymore , it used to when it was a standard T5 engine and it performed well for daily use , this is now a 210 , different engine , and has a ScootRS exhaust which sounds fantastic in acceleration. (Is SIP the one to have ?) Its running a 100/90 -10 rear tyre is that different from the 350 x 10 ? Hey Sbwnik don't even start me on the fuel LOL.
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Post by hinders on May 27, 2012 20:19:14 GMT
If you guys think that the SIP is worth a go (which reading all over the net indicates it is) I presume you mean the one that looks like a standard box ? and not the SIP expansion chamber that looks like my RS ? The more I think about it , the scoot is fab in 123 but doesnt hit the powerband in 4th (unless going down hill) and going up hill is a 40mph experience in 4th , so would lowiering the rev range resolve most of that ? (lower top speed too I suppose but I can't access the top end anyway)...interested in your feedback ...cheers
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Post by sbwnik on May 27, 2012 22:57:30 GMT
I love my SIP Road pipe, yes it's the standard looking one (although they do now do a nice mod looking one!). I'm not into flash pipes as such, for years I ran a Sito +, as I like the idea of being able to carry a spare, and to be able to change it without burning my hands on the pipe as I throw it across the road in disgust. They just look a bit... umm... rubbish.
RS pipes... ah.... the Taffspeed or PM (I can't remember which now!) knock off that is as many mm shorter than the original as there are 1mm grinder blade cuts to break the original up. Strange that! They're not known for being good for low down torque anyway, you may do better with a genuine PM (or even a Mickek - make me an offer on mine!)
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Post by sbwnik on May 27, 2012 22:58:31 GMT
Oh and Randall, if you read this, don't waste your time threatening to sue me for making derogatory comments about your products again. Ta.
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Post by hinders on May 27, 2012 23:41:21 GMT
sbwnik , hey hope I ain't started an issue with Randell , whoever he is ... didnt realise it was a copy , had it on recomendation and cost of course..in fainess it has some good qualities , but I can't open that top up or get up hills LOL. I'm not worried about the spare wheel as I have fitted rimless rims or whatever they call them , and I do like left hand pipes. I'd buy a PM no problem if I thought with some certainty it would solve the problem ? The SIP does sound as if it would pull things together a bit although they are a bit short on looks ...and sound... but could prob live with it. I can rember putting standard exhausts on other scoots over the years and thinking how nice it was taking the racing pipe off , only to swap it again sometime later....thanks for the offer on the Mikek too , tempting but I think I'll work on a new solution ...engine is spanking new.....thanks for taking the time to run stuff past me , the problem has been doing my head in for weeks so I'm getting some ideas/solutions now ....
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Post by pxguru on May 28, 2012 4:31:03 GMT
It gets worse! 40 up hill on a T5 4th is embarrassing. I have never had one that bad.........messing around with the carb and exhaust isn’t going to fix this kind of problem. The standard pipe idea. I thought you would have one rusting in the corner of your shed, don't go buying one. The ScootRS exhaust will be perfect. If you want to spend money forget the cheats and get someone to do the porting! This won’t lower the max revs. It will still rev as high but with less power up top. And much more torque low down. If you don’t want to cut the kit until you know it will work jack up the barrel at least 1mm and put on a totally standard head (careful, NO prolonged high rev action while on a standard head). Just go round the block a few times, this will show you how it could be. Then go get it ported!
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Post by sbwnik on May 28, 2012 10:40:06 GMT
Got to disagree about the RS pipe. Being considerably shorter than the pipe it was knocked off from, it's not that good at low down revs.
Oh, and the thing with Randall (owner of RS) is that he's threatened to sue me twice already for saying his products are crap. He's also threatened the forum I used to run for allowing the same comments to remain unchallenged. He has may name and address, I'm still waiting!
I wouldn't buy a spring washer off the man, it'd probably be faulty.
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Post by hinders on May 28, 2012 11:21:17 GMT
Hi , pxguru , it was a T5 so no 200 bits lying around , I think its time to get get it checked by an expert ..... sbwnik , got the RS picture ....and defo no washers lol. right guys looks think I'm gonna borrow an exhaust for curiosity and then if no good get her chopped up a bit .....
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Post by hinders on May 28, 2012 20:39:40 GMT
You guys got any experience with fuel pumps ? fitted mine , no leaks etc , but performance is worse ....any ideas? jetting ? Cheers
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Post by kru251 on May 29, 2012 14:44:30 GMT
Hinders. "I'm not worried about the spare wheel as I have fitted rimless rims or whatever they call them"
Rimless rims?. You mean SIP type tubeless rims I expect. A bit of a s*d to get tyres on without marking the rim. The rimless ones have the tyres go on very easily ..................... and then fall off again straight away LOL
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Post by hinders on May 29, 2012 16:41:32 GMT
Kru 251 , yes thats the ones .....SIP tubeless and defo has rims ...
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Post by sbwnik on May 29, 2012 20:54:13 GMT
I've stil got a spare on mine and I'm running tubeless... My car runs tubeless and that gets punctures!
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Post by hinders on May 29, 2012 21:32:30 GMT
Yes fair point ...but its easy enough carrying a can of that expanding foam stuff , ruins the tyre but they are supposed to go down slower ...thus safer ?
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Post by kru251 on May 29, 2012 23:31:36 GMT
I went SIP's too 'cos of carrying the Mrs on the back. Want her to be as safe as possible when she's involved with scoots. I've had two domehead screws through motorcycle rear tyres and both stayed up. One I saw during a basic bike check-over and the other I saw when it's glinting caught the sun in a petrol station during refueling. On the other hand I once rebuilt a Suzuki GT250 that had been written off when the chap riding it had had a catastrophic tube failure from a nail through the tyre that brought the bike straight down. Tubeless are safer!
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Post by hinders on Jul 5, 2012 21:46:35 GMT
I thought that those of you that have helped would like to know that I have made some progress with the 210 (felt like PK50). Not cured yet but much improved. Main changes...got fuel pump working properly , changed exhaust from a ScootRS to a SIP performance expansion chamber , changed jet to 128 main and dialled in the carb using this forum scooterbbs.net/board/DCForumID1/48036.html . Now acccelerates in all gears and does a tad over 70 ....I now have a SIP road race exhaust (black box) to try and a a check of the timing ...hopefully that will be enough to get it running ok Keep you posted....
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Post by kru251 on Jul 6, 2012 13:02:36 GMT
Sounds like you're making progress though. You just need some consistent dry weather to test I exepect!!!
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Post by hinders on Jul 10, 2012 18:52:11 GMT
Could I get your opinion please ....
Just chaged exhaust from SIP expansion chamber to SIP road race (Sito looking one)
What do you think on rejetting ? SIP exp runs best on 128 main ? Move down to 126?124? (its a 30mm OKO)
Thanks agin
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Post by hinders on Nov 3, 2012 22:08:07 GMT
After a long delay ...sorry guys ....I have 90% cracked the 210 problems ...without a rebuild.
All I can say is change the exhaust to a SIP "road race" , the one that looks like a sito ....brings the rev range forward about 1000 rpm , still nippy through the gears (nowhere as good as an expansion chamber in that respect) , but dip from 3rd to 4th is almost gone and top speeed still seems a good 75mph. Work a lot on the jetting and its the best set up I can find ...even goes up hills. I think a rolling road set up will make the last 10% !!!!
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Post by sbwnik on Nov 4, 2012 5:11:54 GMT
I love it when it looks like I know something
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Post by hinders on Nov 4, 2012 23:46:36 GMT
Hey sbwnik you either know what you are talking about or look like you know what you are talking about lol. Its still not 100% but will eventually get it on the rolling road and fine tune the carb perhaps....and double check the timing , tbh honest its pretty good now and the top speed is prob more than the 75 I said in last post .....but always smile when I see these guys with their 95mph 210's ....lmao .... Its a shame about the expansion chamber but I now have a good , very quick , useable scoot ...happy days ...I'll post again if anything changes. If anyone wants to ask me about 210's please do I have learnt a lot this year !!!!
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modpx
1st Class Ticket
Posts: 87
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Post by modpx on Dec 3, 2013 10:25:59 GMT
Hi everybody, i resume this post cause i'm having a similar problem (actually identical) with my new Malossi 210 2013 sport. I bought it cause i thought it was easier to set up with a 57mm crank due to his renewed port timings apparently more touristic but i was wrong. At the moment i run a drt 3 petals reed valve intake system for SI carburettors, 23/65 with short fourth 36 teeth, a worb 5 flowed 57mm crankshaft and a sip road kind-of pipe. Ah... and.. i don't pull the fourth!!!! at the moment i have a Malossi standard base gasket (the one that comes in with the kit) and 0.5mm head gasket, squish 1.3mm. I see that pxguru is suggesting to pack 1mm down and leave a very tight squish to keep up the power AND the torque in order to pull the fourth. hinders: have you ever tried that? Hows your Malox doing now? Still riding? On other forums i was suggested to do other way round: skim the cylinder base to lower the transfer ports and get more torque... but i'm not convinced about that solution... Any help appreciated.
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Post by philhnottm on Dec 4, 2013 19:26:03 GMT
Having tried half a dozen different pipes on my sausage speed 210 my MB BGM has just landed today.
Tried the jl SIP PM tuning pipes and none worked as well as the SIP road race which SBNIK swears by.
However the reviews so far state improved torque and a slight increase in top end by fitting the MB pipe.
Running with a 132 main jet on a 28 ml dellorto with no filter. Been suggested to put a 138 jet to start off with.
Like all 210's its great 1st 2nd and 3rd and will sit at GPS 65 on A roads and motorway. Had 70 ish GPS top speed which im sure on most forums is 90 MPH vespa speedo !!!
New rings new pipe then trip to Diablo Moto to ensure carb set up is bang on.
Phil
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