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Post by reggaeskin on Dec 6, 2021 21:48:16 GMT
Hello all,
Vespa newbie here. I’ve got a 1999 Douglas PX 125. Currently won’t kick, the flywheel isn’t turning when I kick start and it’s like the clutch is pulled in. Prior to this happening my throttle was stuck open on the way home so I was riding the clutch and think I’ve f**ked it.
So far I’ve checked the clutch cable and tightened it up worried it had slipped which did nothing. Also it won’t move gear so I’ve had a look at the gear cables which looked fine at first glance.
It would be really helpful to know what to check and likely causes!
Cheers
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Post by adrian on Dec 7, 2021 10:49:33 GMT
Does the kick-start go down ? Or is that also stuck ??
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Post by adrian on Dec 7, 2021 10:52:08 GMT
Probably a good idea to check the clutch plates and basket, you will need a clutch removal tool
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Post by reggaeskin on Dec 7, 2021 13:14:12 GMT
Does the kick-start go down ? Or is that also stuck ?? Yes the kick goes down but doesn’t engage and the fly wheel isn’t spinning. After some reading is it possible it’s the woodruff key on the flywheel? |
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Post by reggaeskin on Dec 7, 2021 13:15:15 GMT
Probably a good idea to check the clutch plates and basket, you will need a clutch removal tool I’ve ordered the tools to remove the clutch and flywheel today, hopefully should be here by the weekend. When inspecting the clutch plates what should I be looking for? |
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Post by adrian on Dec 7, 2021 15:21:30 GMT
Burnt cork or missing stands out, after your description, also check the basket for wear and tear
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Post by reggaeskin on Dec 9, 2021 21:24:34 GMT
After some time out in yard after work I’ve got the clutch open but forgot to get a clutch locking tool however, can already smell burnt cork and see burnt debris all over the clutch. I assume it’s new plates, soak in oil then replace. I’ve got the compressor tool so will update after the weekend and a trip to Pedparts. Is a DR clutch kit a direct replacement for the standard one or will I need something else? Thanks for all the help!
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Post by gpowell on Dec 11, 2021 16:18:10 GMT
The DR clutch kit is a straight replacement and a pretty good.
Thoroughly clean the clutch basket and parts to reuse.
Put a new thrush washer in whike you there.
Dont forget a new tab washer for under clutch nut or change to the wavy washer and flanged nut with a dab of threadlock.
Fresh oil as well
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Post by reggaeskin on Dec 12, 2021 14:40:00 GMT
Ok by way of an update and a further plea for help…
I got the castellated nut tool and wasn’t able to get the nut undone by hand. I caved and bought an impact wrench which due to its size required me to swing the engine down but the bloody thing is out!
Meanwhile I went to Fowers (an official Vespa dealer in Bristol, UK) and bought the friction plates and end plate which I soaked in oil to save time. I’ve taken the clutch apart today which was burnt to a crisp and the friction plates are the wrong size.
I went back to Fowlers and they say that these are the only plates they have and due to this it must be an aftermarket clutch and offered me a whole new clutch for £268! Does anyone have any idea where I can get appropriate plates and would anyone like new oily new plates for postage? The diameter of my current friction plate is 97mm and the new plate is 108mm. I've had a look online and it looks as if the ones I was sold are the smaller plates but still too big!
Cheers all!
Edit to add:
I should mention the springs I was sold were also incorrect and too narrow, I have significantly wider springs on my clutch if that helps with identification.
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Post by adrian on Dec 12, 2021 21:29:08 GMT
Give ve a ring, they are very helpful and fast postage, they will see you right 👍
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markp
1st Class Ticket
Posts: 71
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Post by markp on Dec 13, 2021 11:03:16 GMT
Give ve a ring, they are very helpful and fast postage, they will see you right 👍 Agree VE are really good. |
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Post by reggaeskin on Dec 13, 2021 13:48:34 GMT
VE are incredible! The clutch kit I was given was for a disc PX125. The new one is on order so now the waiting game continues.
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Post by adrian on Dec 13, 2021 17:02:41 GMT
VE are my preferred supplier , 👍 postage is usually very fast, for little bits and pieces I use vespajets, also very helpful 👍
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Post by reggaeskin on Dec 16, 2021 21:37:25 GMT
The clutch plates came after an overnight marinate in some oil I’ve put the clutch back together. The top plate didn’t quite fit which I assume means the basket is warped? I did the unthinkable and used a file to take a teeny bit off the top plate so it moves free which will hopefully at least get me riding as between tools and parts it’s turning into a bit of a money pit.
I finally got everything together and got it running again after some messing with the idle screw, popped it into first and it jumped. Does that mean the clutch isn’t fully engaged and therefore the cable needs to be tighter?
I attempted to tighten it up and snapped it which now means another wait! The time will give me chance to change the oil.
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Post by reggaeskin on Dec 18, 2021 17:30:32 GMT
Ok sorry to keep posting. I’ve rebuilt the clutch and put it back together then got my new cable in. The cable was on extremely tight but the clutch still wasn’t engaging. I read online that the the plates may not have been moving freely so I’ve filed down some more. The clutch still isn’t engaging reliably. I’ve had a look at the brass washer and there’s a small indent from the rivets. The look of the washer appears to have a flange on the outside rather than the inside which is, I believe due to the washer being from a cosa clutch rather than the older six spring design.
Does anyone have knowledge of both types of clutch who could comment or have any other ideas?
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Post by phattanglo on Dec 20, 2021 9:18:45 GMT
Can we recap your progress and what you've eliminated.
So you think the flywheel Woodruff key is ok?
When the clutch is engaged, do you have a little free play on the clutch lever?
If the clutch cover is off and you turn the clutch does the crank rotate?
If the clutch cover is off and you use the kickstart does the clutch and crank rotate?
If so that would suggest a problem with the clutch cover or cable tension.
Often it is something really basic.
I would say that if you end up having to replace the entire clutch I have always found the Cosa standard clutch to be a nice unit if your engine is in a standard state of tune
If you are looking to increase your engine power then you might want to consider a clutch which has been reinforced for a tuned engine.
Hope this helps.
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Post by alan34 on Dec 20, 2021 17:17:40 GMT
Hello there are you using new piaggio clutch plates on a non piaggio clutch basket. Let us know how you get on cheers alan.
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Post by reggaeskin on Dec 22, 2021 9:48:39 GMT
The engine turns and both the flywheel and crank woodruff are fine. I think I may have found the issue! The parts I had been sold were genuine Piaggio parts for a cosa clutch and my scooter has the older six spring clutch so the clutch plates are too large.
I think the issue is that the brass trust washer is a bit bent and looks as if it’s fouling the rivets. The older six spring clutch’s trust washer has a lip in the centre whereas, the newer trust washer for a cosa type clutch is a cup shape with a lip going down towards the springs. I’m awaiting the new washer and am hopeful this will do the trick.
I’ve replaced the clutch plates with malossi four plate model, the 96mm diameter ones as the clutch is six spring. I had got confused and only installed three of the plates thinking there was a spare and not realising that the malossi set is thinner and therefore the fourth plate was also supposed to be used. I’ve made sure to soak these in oil overnight prior to fitting.
I’ll update once the new trust washer is in and with any luck I’ll be up and running again. I’ve also found some info about ensuring the gap in teeth in the drive plates are lined up, and that I wiggle the springs into the gaps until I hear a click so I’ll ensure to do this when I fit the new washer.
If that doesn’t work I think as a last ditch I’ll try and file the basket gaps and if that doesn’t do it I think I’m peckered and will get a new clutch.
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Post by phattanglo on Dec 23, 2021 9:05:05 GMT
That's good, it sounds like you're getting there.
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Post by alan34 on Dec 23, 2021 10:32:25 GMT
Hello there. on youtube there are some good films on stripping and rebuilding the clutch on a px try and have a look let us know how you get on cheers alan.
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Post by reggaeskin on Dec 23, 2021 22:33:13 GMT
I’ve done it! After some work tonight it’s all working again. Very happy to say that It was indeed the trust washer for a mere £3.10. The flange on the trust washer for the newer clutch models is wider and fouls the rivets if used with a older six spring clutch. The way to identify (other than width) is that the older version has a lip on the inside whereas the newer kind has a cup.
I also managed to have one of the indicators stop working which was due to the clip nicking the casing of the wire and shorting. Some electric tape fixed that one.
Thanks all for the help and support and very much looking forward to riding to work tomorrow.
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Post by alan34 on Dec 24, 2021 10:12:24 GMT
Well done for sticking it out got there in the end.you will have a happier christmas knowing it's ok. Merry christmas and new year to all cheers alan.
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