Clutch issue

[fyfer]

Hi folks



Some help and advice required please?

Vespa PX/T5 (1989)

Only covered 33 miles, since recent re-build.

New Clutch Plates fitted during re-build.

Clutch lever feels heavy and Clutch is Very Grabby / Snatchy when pulling away in 1st.

Have screwed back the clutch cable adjuster, which appears to make pulling the clutch lever ‘easier’ but now I cannot get into 1st gear.

I don’t want to force it.



Any ideas?



Cheers

[scooterg]

Engine off, put into first pull clutch and push the scooter,
What happens ?

[adrian]

Did you soak the new clutch in gear ⚙ oil 🛢 for 24 hours before fitting, probably not the issue, just an idea 🤔

[ironsloth]

Is the cruciform in the right way round? Did you soak the plates in oil overnight too, like Adrian suggested?

[alan34]

Hello there. I read somewhere when you put plates back in there is a washer which has to go in right way round also the first plate you put back may be a thicker one and is there a hole in one of the plates that has to line up with clutch basket and are the springs straight in seats let us know how you get on cheers alan.

[fyfer]

Hi guys

Thank you all for your replies

I didn't pre-soak the New Clutch plates, prior to fitting.
Although it was many months between re-building the engine and getting it back in the frame and ready to fire up!
So they may well have dried up again
As far as I can recall, the Clutch springs were all in nice and square and I don't 'think' there was a thicker plate??

When I was out on her last week, there were no issues when changing gear, thro the gears for 25+ miles without any problem, so would like to think the Cruciform is installed correctly.
But it did feel like it wanted to wheelie (almost) when getting to the biting point in 1st gear, prior to pulling away.

I'm just in from work so will try your suggestion 'ScooterG'

After reading other posts, I might have to get into the clutch to see if the Woodruff key is still in one piece. (but that'll probably be a weekend job)
While I'm in there I will remove the clutch and soak the plates, just to rule that out.

Will keep you posted with my progress

Cheers lads

[fyfer]

Have tried your suggestion ScooterG
Engine Off, in 1st Gear, Clutch in.... Push forward, initially not moving 'freely' but will move forward with a bit of drag.
Reckon I can clear the drag with the Clutch Cable Adjuster but that takes me back to where I was...
ie can stick it 1st while it's running but clutch is snatchy as I let the lever out

Reckon I need to take the clutch cover off and get in for a look

Cheers

[scooterbooter]

Before going into your clutch I would open the top of the gear selector box and check there that all your gears are sitting nicely in their grooves. Just a thought. X

[fyfer]

Hi guys

It has taken a while but the clutch tools ('Holder' & 'Compression' tools) only arrived today.

Got the Clutch out / off of the scoot. No problem with the woodruff key, so took the clutch apart.
All the friction plates are soaked in oil and everything came apart nicely... apart from (the first) Final Friction Plate.

As I took the circlip off, the final friction plate came off relatively easy but did not move in and out of the basket, as easy as the other friction plates.

In fact, with everything dismantled, the final friction plate does not drop into the spaces in the basket, without some persuasion.
I think this could be the cause of my notchy clutch problem.

I remember when inspecting the clutch, as I was building the engine, that I noticed the old final friction plate looked pretty notched, at the tabs.
So I replaced the old plates with a new set, at the time.

I'm now thinking about replacing the clutch with a New complete one.

I have read somewhere (I'm sure) that some folk substitute a COSA Clutch for a PX Clutch.
Is this because the COSA clutch is in some way uprated, when compared to the PX unit?

Or do I just stick with replacing like with like and buy a New complete PX clutch unit?

Scooterbooter - thanks for your idea but I had already checked the position of the notches on the gear selector.
and when I was out for the initial ride, I had no problems with gear selection, once I was moving.
It was only when I was initially moving off, that I noticed the Grabby / Notchy clutch problem

Look forward to getting more of your advice folks

cheers for now

Fyfer

[Jock]

ON some clutch plates there is a Residue between the main corks , if so clean it off with a sharp tool ( supposed to bare metal between )

[alan34]

Hello there just a thought but is inner clutch cable ok any kinks or frayed wires worth a try cheers alan.

[fyfer]

Hi guys

Thank you both for your input
It's a new clutch cable Alan34, have checked and no apparent fraying or kinks in the cable.

I did think it might be the 'cush-drive' springs in the 'primary drive' and the video you put up Dave, confirms that may well be the problem.

I have the clutch out and there's no build up of crud between the cork plates

The back plate does not drop in and out of the slots in the basket.
In fact it's a bit of a struggle getting it to the basket. Won't go in without some force!
I thought about filing either side of the tabs, to help it drop and in & out of the basket easier.

And will ensure the holes line up, as shown in the video, when assembling the clutch.

I'll re-install the clutch to see if that makes a difference.

If it's still grabby, I reckon it may well be the Primary Drive Springs that are the problem after all

Thanks again for your suggestions guys

Fyfer

[fyfer]

When I say 'Grabby', it's like she wants to wheelie when pulling away in 1st

[alan34]

Hello there if your final clutch plate is sticking in basket that could well be your trouble all plates need to move smoothly also is there any indentations in cluth basket fingers where they slide up and down it's a common fault on clutches. grooves in the basket causes the plates to stick in place you need to file them flat and straight or renew cl utch basket let us know how you get on good luck alan.