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Post by gummybody on Sept 21, 2019 16:42:32 GMT
Hi
I have a 1966 Vespa 150 Super and it has been running sweet, coming home from a ride last week I stopped for 1/2 hour. Tried to start the bike but no spark and couldn't get going. Got the bike home and found the Grey wire on the Bajaj CDI had broken off the spade connector. The black connector had also come off the CDI but this could have been when I removed the rubber cover. Re-crimped the grey wire and re-connected to CDI and re-connected the black to the CDI too. Thought that had sorted it but although now I have a healthy spark ( and fuel ) it just won't start. Tried also with the black spade disconnected from CDI but no joy. Can't seem to get a decent AC reading from HT lead but as spark looks good I'm suspecting that's my meter?Thought it was a simple fix but before I order spare CDI / Coil have I missed anything obvious.
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Post by ianmartin40 on Sept 21, 2019 19:44:07 GMT
Is the plug getting wet with fuel?
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Post by gummybody on Sept 26, 2019 15:49:02 GMT
Hi ianmartin40, firstly apologies as I thought I had responded to your question so here goes. The plug was getting wet so i turned off the fuel tap, removed plug and kicked over 30+ times till no fuel coming out of "plug hole" then replaced plug , turned fuel back on and re-tried, no change. Repeated this and removed air filter, sprayed carb cleaner directly into carb and tried again with no change. Measured across Violet & Eth on CDI and this time can see between 23 to 30v ac which although a bit low I can see a good spark. I am reluctant to start looking at stator / CDI/ Coil as don't want to introduce other faults as this started with no spark and I have fixed that. Scratching head a bit now though?
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Post by ianmartin40 on Sept 26, 2019 18:58:19 GMT
I would start with easy/cheap stuff, is there a chance exhaust is blocked? I would fit a new plug just as it is easy and cheap to do then maybe worth looking at other things like has stator plate moved, how good is compression, can you borrow a known good cdi to test, could you be drawing in too much air, always worth bump stating down big hill etc incase a kick start is just not enough for some reason, I would also consider a carb and jet clean, these are all fairly easy jobs that will not cost much so worth giving a go.
Ian
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Post by gummybody on Sept 29, 2019 18:47:48 GMT
Tried new plugs , HT lead caps etc, cleaned carb, blew jets. When fault originally happened ( 3 weeks ago )I tried to take flywheel off to get to stator. Firstly, the flywheel holder I have didn't work on this bike as it has a plastic flywheel cover so I had to wedge a screwdriver in to hold flywheel while I loosened the nut. Got the nut off but then my flywheel removal tool wouldn't fit as it was too wide. Ordered a bajaj flywheel removal tool and it came this weekend so I was able to get the flywheel off. Then found that I had damaged one of the coils with the screwdriver previously. This was before I found the broken wire on the CDI. So, unravelled the coil and it was " damaged" but not severed. Applied a bit of solder and re-wound the coil ( not perfectly as coil insulator had broken ) re-connected and had spark again but wouldn't start. So looks like maybee I have fixed original fault and introduced a new one. How can I prove coil or spark? Suspect I may need to solder a new coil onto stator or get a new stator.
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Post by gummybody on Oct 10, 2019 14:07:44 GMT
Just an update, ordered a replacement coil which will be a couple of weeks( India )but think it is a lighting coil and won't affect ignition.Have measured leads from stator and they look roughly ok on meter . Was thinking about the flywheel which has 28 degrees imprinted on it. It seems like the flywheel will fit on the crankshaft at any angle so I'm thinking how does it affect the timing? Now suspect woodruff key may be worn or missing. Will check that next and give update, any ideas welcome.
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Post by scooterg on Oct 10, 2019 17:02:36 GMT
How’s the compression
Had similar kind of breakdown,turned out I’d burnt a hole on the top of the piston
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Post by gummybody on Oct 11, 2019 13:52:07 GMT
Hi scooterg - compression's good.
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Post by mijapxman on Oct 15, 2019 17:44:17 GMT
Before I start thinking about this, you had it running yet?
Mij☺
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Post by gummybody on Oct 15, 2019 19:04:07 GMT
Mij - Yep It was running sweet, I do have an update, I removed the flywheel again and found the Woodruff key had snapped and left a bit in the flywheel and the rest in the crankshaft. I have removed the broken bits and have ordered a new Woodruff key, should be here in the next couple of days. Will fit it and let you know.
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Post by ianmartin40 on Oct 15, 2019 20:31:21 GMT
hopefully that will be a fix
Ian
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Post by mijapxman on Oct 19, 2019 11:16:42 GMT
Mij - Yep It was running sweet, I do have an update, I removed the flywheel again and found the Woodruff key had snapped and left a bit in the flywheel and the rest in the crankshaft. I have removed the broken bits and have ordered a new Woodruff key, should be here in the next couple of days. Will fit it and let you know. Try using grinding paste on the flywheel/ crank. to get them to fit together better, it may stop it snapping Woodruff keys it the future. Mij☺ |
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Post by gummybody on Oct 19, 2019 16:40:12 GMT
Update on this one, fitted new Woodruff key and still not starting ( Still getting a spark ) New pair of lighting coils arrived so changed these on the stator - still not starting ( still getting a spark ). Scratching head now, I can't fathom the timing on this. I have not moved the stator at all ) in fact it will only fit in one position, there are no slots to move it either way ( advance or retard) The casing has two marks on it and the flywheel has a mark also but they don't line up and I can only fit the flywheel where the woodruff key lines up with the slot in the flywheel. Am not using a special tool to tighten nut securing flywheel but it seems to tighten up ok. Still can't help feeling this is something simple.
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Post by mijapxman on Oct 21, 2019 5:44:18 GMT
Have you checked if the new Woodruff key has sheared again? it does happen!
Did you lap the flywheel and crank ,as I mentioned earlier?
Try the guys on the "modern Vespa forum", the "not so modern section", I believe a few of them have experience of Bajaj ingnitions , and they are a very helpful bunch of guys .
Mij☺
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Post by gummybody on Oct 22, 2019 8:34:48 GMT
Hi mijapxman, thanks I will check the Woodruff key again and get some grinding paste. Posted on the modern vespa forum as you suggested. Will keep you updated thanks.
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Post by gummybody on Oct 28, 2019 21:11:44 GMT
Hi mijapxman, checked again and Woodruff had sheared again, modern vespa advised that flywheel nut needs to be tightened to 45lbs \ ft so I have ordered a torque wrench. Have got a tin of grinding paste as you advised ( Coarse & fine ) so presume I use coarse first then finish with fine. Any tips for this procedure? Do I use on Crank and Flywheel and how much \ how long? Have read to rub in figure of eight but can't see that working on crankshaft?
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Post by mijapxman on Oct 29, 2019 23:47:51 GMT
Hi gummybody,you can lap them with it engine built and in situ, the video link is just an example 😉.
I prefer to use the smooth paste, even if it means checking a few more times sometimes, to see if it's completely smooth.
I turn the flywheel about six times in the same direction, then check the crank to see if it looks dull and smooth over the whole flywheel contact point,if yes carefully clean ALL the grinding past OFF everything and job done. If not, repeat and turn another two or three times, still in the same direction, clean everything again and job done.
A word off warning, I have seen a crank and flywheel that someone lapped using about forty turns and it made the flywheel hit the stator plate as it turned, as the had taken too much of.
Mij☺
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Post by gummybody on Nov 4, 2019 10:19:56 GMT
Hi mijapxman, thanks- great video. So lapped the flywheel/ crankshaft and inserted new woodruff key. Torqued flywheel back on to 45lbs \ ft. Kicked it over twice and it started up but died after 20 secs, had a couple more goes and did get it going again for around 30 secs but it died again. So looks timing related and thanks for all suggestions so far. Can't get flywheel off again yet as I have no flywheel holder and don't want to jam a screwdriver in like last time. I'll have to make one and have a think, will update later.
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Post by scooterg on Nov 4, 2019 14:37:46 GMT
Flywheel pullers only about £10
Be aswell buying one ,easier and quicker than making one
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Post by ironsloth on Nov 4, 2019 21:24:54 GMT
Got to agree with scooterg, beats time on a lathe with a lump of billet.
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Post by mijapxman on Nov 5, 2019 6:24:12 GMT
May be a silly question, but you did have the fuel turned on and enough in the tank? 😉
Mij☺
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Post by gummybody on Nov 5, 2019 8:51:56 GMT
Hi Gents, fuel ok and it's a flywheel holder I need, I've got one that's ok for the GL but can't use it on this bajaj stator as it's got plastic fins on the flywheel cover. The puller is a different size to a stock PX puller too, had to get that from India.
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Post by gummybody on Nov 11, 2019 12:06:05 GMT
Gents, another update and it's good news I have got it running. All looked ok behind the flywheel but the spark didn't look quite right. Took off the HT lead and trimmed 1cm off the DCI end and re-terminated. Started first kick and ran ok. Big smile on face but it's not finished yet. Lights and cut off switch do not work so looks like the two new coils I fitted are duff / not connected correctly so flywheel will have to come off and I'll have another look. Toying with idea of new Vespatronic ignition kit but at least I can ride it to the garage if required. Lots of lessons learned here by me as I have caused most of my problems by not using correct tools ( ie -screwdriver in Stator ) Thanks for all the tips and ideas, it really does help when you are learning.
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Post by mijapxman on Nov 11, 2019 14:40:53 GMT
Glad to hear it.
We're all here to learn, even if it's just something about each other.
Thanks for keeping us upto date, and remember you can start/ join in/ comment on other threads at anytime. Can get a bit quiet on here at times and sometimes a bit boring just answering questions (or trying to 😉).
Ride safe.
Mij ☺
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Post by gummybody on Apr 11, 2020 9:48:08 GMT
Hi Gents, final update on this problem ( hopefully). I didn't do much on it since the last update but couldn't get the lights working and it would sometimes start and sometimes not, eventually it wouldn't start at all but still had a spark. I ordered a new Stator\ CDI and Ignition coil to try and bottom out the problem. New stator came and didn't fit so had to drill new holes then it didn't fit as it was slightly different size to original one. Removed coils \ pickup etc from old stator, kept the plate and replaced with coils\pickup from new stator. Different connectors and colored wires but changed \ sorted these and fitted it and checked the spark. This looked much brighter than previous spark and started up fine with lights\ horn\ cutoff switch all working fine.
So what started with a breakdown due to broken wire on CDI resulted in me, wrecking the stator. Still it gave me something to do ( left it from about Nov - March due to weather)and I learnt how not to take a Bajaj flywheel off then probably had the flywheel on \ off a couple of dozen times or more since. Now it's running I can't go anywhere but fingers crossed we can all get out on them before summer is over. Keep safe and thanks again for the advice along the way, hope this may help someone in future.
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Post by alanc on Sept 27, 2020 18:10:20 GMT
I had the bajaj ignition on my sprint veloce had nothing but trouble with it couldn't get over 45mph after over a year of trying different jets etc bit the bullet and got the vespatronic instantly up to 60+ mph never looked back. £350 very well spent
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Post by gummybody on Sept 30, 2020 17:00:45 GMT
Hi Alanc, well mine ran for a while on the Bajaj then rear wheel locked up while riding near home. Turned out the screws in the stator were too long and they cauught on the coils and properly broke it. I have just bought a Vespatronic kit and have removed the old CDI and wiring. Did you wire yours up because I was wondering if I use same connections to the new regulator? Also it used to have a bundle of wiring to the old CDI and Coil combo but now it looks like I just have red to pos 1 on CDI, Blue to pos 2 on CDI and Yellow to regulator with White \ Red unused. Is this correct?
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