my PX 200e failed the MOT on the rear suspension bush being "excessively worn". Verbally he said that the bush was split and the damper flanges fouling the "body" (the latter is odd as the bush is at the rear of the engine casing).
I've taken the bush out and its clearly recent and perfect (I've compared the dimensions to the new one) which has put me on notice re Mr Mot-man. Nevertheless I have replaced bush, sleeve and correct size bolt with genuine new Piaggio items. Nut is torqued per the Haynes manual.
The damper sits as it did before, but now that all is reassembled, I didn't see any fouling of bodywork before or now. I've called Mr MOT-man to re-book and mentioned the perfect bush etc but he is playing hard ball already and I sense some hostility. When I go back, I doubt I will get a welcome.
So, can anyone please take and post some photos of how the PX rear damper/flanges/bolts/bush etc should sit? Of course, recent "MOT pass scooter pics will be even more welcome"
Many thanks and I hope not to have caused inconvenience with the request.
I thought of that too but looking up the regs, you can't do the work then complain (ie a question of proof) and even if you "win" you have to pay another fee and get back part of the previous fee!! By that time you are out of the re-test concessionary price so you loose on all counts....
Ironsloth: no there is no such sound so fair to assume he meant bottom bush. any photos please of a properly set up damper/bush area to compare?
I had a similar f**kwit MOT guy years ago. Was working for a scooter shop and had put loads of scooters through MOTs, we decided to try a new garage for MOTs, he says the top and bottom fork bearings are binding and too tight, tried explaining he was feeling the gear cables etc moving as he turned the forks , anyways, he makes me loosen them of, turns the handlebars and say still too tight! I end up having to go through this sh*t twice more in loosening them off!!! He was by this time in severe risk of getting Jap Slapped!!f**ker passes it, but on the way out of the garage I pull the front brake and the whole front end starts banging and jumping up and down, it was that loose!! Got around the corner and tightened it back up properly. f**ker! Moral of the story is try to use someone who's used to MOTing classic scoots.
If it was me, I'd forget about it, and re- MOT at another garage 😉.
Last Edit: Sept 17, 2019 17:20:58 GMT by mijapxman
problem is that bike MOT places are getting fewer and ones run by people who dig the older stuff fewer still. I am asking around. the better tester seems to have left there a few months back. Shame there is no register, accessible by the public, of (previous) testers and where they are located (now!).
I was going to take him another retro looking scoot having tightened up the headstock bearings but Mij's story makes me think twice there.
Ok update. i see what MOT tester is on about and it concerned me too before i started. The lower cradle (ie the two locating flanges) of the shock/damper is able to slide sideways, during use, along part of the length of the inner bush sleeve thus possibly allowing the steel cradle/flanges to come into contact with the alloy engine casing. Although there are no witness marks of this happening, it is not ideal and spacer washers are to be fitted.
Anyone else noticed this or fitted spacers or dealt with it using another effective engineering solution? I doubt the bottom of the shock/damper is supposed to slide sideways to any appreciable extent.
Last Edit: Sept 19, 2019 17:31:08 GMT by rds: edit for clarity
I seen that before, a good few times, even seen it marking the engine case. Never known any to fail an MOT because of it(But I think they should fail). All the ones I've seen do it, are the aftermarket I believe, shorter rubber bush, that is smaller than the part or the case it fits into. Beedspeed used to sell this shorter bush/ maybe still do?. I much prefer the updated BGM rubber bushes and use them here and at the bushes for the main engine bolt. They are slightly stiffer and make for better handling imho.😉.
Their at two sizes of steel insert for the shock and bush bolt, the outside diameter of and length of this steel insert is the same ,I believe, but the inner diameter of the hole is; 9mm for older shock/scooters eg: mark1 P125x/p150x/p200e and 10mm for the later Px125e, disk models ,etc. I fit 10mm ones to every scoot, which has sometimes required drilling the bottom shock holes to 10mm on the older type shocks.
See here how tight the center tube fit is👇 wish I'd checked for a video first, would have saved me typing most of the above 😵
So.. maybe try a new bush and bolt tube for a tighter fit between the two! Never seen any fitted with spacers.
Last Edit: Sept 19, 2019 19:40:44 GMT by mijapxman
I did fit a new bush and sleeve sourced from Buzzsolomoto before going back to the MOT station.
I had also bought a new bolt/nut washer. I had a suspicion there were different sizes and called Buzzsolomoto first to discuss what i actually needed ie a 35mm bush, 10mm bolt and sleeve. Guess what, they sent me a 30mm bush, 9mm bolt and 10mm sleeve. Another call, another wait and the 35mm bush arrived (i was told Piaggio OEM but who knows?). I used a 10mm bolt from my own stock. I could not find any stiffer bushes despite my desire to find them, at a reasonable price within the UK.
There were no marks on the case either.
Unlike the video (which I did not find on my prior search), i used a bush and sleeve extractor that i made up myself without needing to take the wheel and drum off or whacking the sleeve out!! I though that was rather poor practice.
I greased up the rubber bush with silicone grease internally (possibly why the sleeve slips but was easy to fit) and externally and the bolt with LM grease.
The video was very useful though because it seems to show spacers where MOT tester wants them: see 5:52.....or maybe ith doesnt, and that is just the sleeve and clear air between the flange and the casing? Would you care to comment on what we can see?
I'll threddle them over the bolt.
Interestingly, MOT tester was not interested in the stock piaggio set up per the parts manual....
Last Edit: Sept 19, 2019 20:29:23 GMT by rds: another view of the video!
Hello Ironsloth yes an isolastic or metalastic bush is exactly what I wanted really - I had visions of wading through internal and external dimensions sheets with no clear result and time slipping by so I took the "easy route" and tried to buy off the peg from the supplier mentioned above after checking the other suppliers in Scootering. In the end, I am still not entirely happy and will fit the spacers. However if you have a link to the bush suppliers, do please post it to help others (and me when I do it again....soon!)
Last Edit: Sept 19, 2019 21:02:03 GMT by rds: grammar and spelling!
That's ok mate, it is manic here with work and other duties anyway. That looks good and appears to be 48mm length rather than the 35mm i sourced.
I use talcum on my cycle rubber parts but never thought to use it on the scooter!! thanks for the tip.
I still have to fit some spacers to the flanges of the damper cradle though. Bought a selection today BUT one thing is bugging me:
MOT tester wanted to keep the steel of the cradle away form the alloy of the engine casing so as to stop the casing wearing away being softer. When i asked what material be wanted the spacers to be, thinking he would say aluminium so as to act as a sacrificial barrier, he said "steel". I can;t see it: if the rubbing of the steel cradle is problematical, then the rubbing that the steel spacer would transmit to the casing would have the same effect.....surely?
I have no idea the actual dimensions of the above part, just using it as an example for looks, although it my be worth finding its dimensions out? Or How about washers, using one suitability large washer touching the bush, on each side,if you can find them slightly smaller than the OD of the rubber bush?(if that's what he wants!?) you could drill the inner hole to the desired size? Then smaller OD washers taking up the rest of the space, till they touch the shock?
Was thinking about this as I fell asleep last night, found the answer! Ask the MOT man to draw what he wants done!
Do you not have a few days or a couple of weeks to return it for it's re-test? Can't remember the exact time.
Apologies to all - it's been a s*d of a few weeks. I got it in just before the grace period ended.
I wished I HAD asked him to draw it but all he said was "fit a few washers between and you are sorted" hence my "what material washers" which irritated him a bit....asking to get a pencil out would have irritated him further. He made a comment about being a specialist mechanic on a particular make so i asked him a technical question on that make and a particular model that i saw him working on before and......he swerved it.....
Anyway, I think he wants me to fit steel washers that will keep the cradle flanges of the damper from sliding along the sleeve and keep the sleeve from sliding within the bush, so that the flanges do not come into contact with the alloy casing. If that is the case the large penny washers with 10mm hole will have to be fitted.
I'll have a play with all the different washers and spacers that have amassed this week.
However, this dispute is why I asked for pics of other's damper/casing area. Maybe my damper has too large a distance between the flanges? can anyone post pics of a good set up please?
I would have said b*ll*cks to that long ago, can't stress it enough, mines standard in that department. Sounds like he's a mechanic for Lego, either that or an auto butcher. Bet you what you like, there's better and far more efficient mot testers in your area, instead of this turd... what's the name of this f**king "garage"?? I use that term loosely, it's dicks like this which f**k it up for us in the motor trade.....
Believe it or not, I have done a search for other bike MOT places locally. The thing is they are all getting poor reviews on the web! The best one, really old-school, passed away suddenly recently and his shoes have not been filled by anyone. I'll look further afield.
This one says he wants his MOTs to be whiter than white.....
This is what ruins the motor trade generally sadly. Women complain that they get a raw deal when they take the car/bike into garages, citing sexism. I contradict them and tell them its the same for many people, male or female!
I may have to hang around parking bays to get shots of vespa rears if noone will post any pics....