BGM BigBox fouling Vespa Rally center stand

[paulwaite]

Just finished building the Rally and the teething problems now need sorting. In this instance, the center stand fouls the BGM BigBox exhaust, as shown below, so it cannot fully retract flush with the running board. Cant seem to find anyone else on the web who has had this issue.



Any suggestions, ie is there a different type of center stand available



Thanks

[henri]

some fettling required ,looks like the rotation stops need slimming for it to rise higher , an i think i'd swap feet to ali ones as they will get close/touch pipe when it rises higher .if ya look in beedys bargain bin they often have red ali 1's if ya want to colour co-ordinate .
or ,maybe cut n sleeve weld n widen stand so it rises outside the pipe ,or maybe a cosa stand as there wider chassis ,got one in garage ,if rain stops will pop up n measure n photo it if ya like . H

[Robjack]

I put a short piece of tube over the stand leg, a gentle pull and it now clears it. Would also recommend ali stand feet.

The only compromise I now have to make it that the kick start can only be used with the stand down (which is the case 99 times out of a 100 anyway) Just need to remember that the kick start lever doesn't return fully if the stand is up. It's only caught me out once, but it was a trooser brooning moment having the kick start lever grounding on a right hander. Like I say, not an issue if it's kicked over under normal circumstances, but worth considering if you decide to bend it out a bit.

[henri]

or out the box thinking ,go side stand , H

[sbwnik]

Definitely sidestand

Apart from anything else, they look better

[paulwaite]

To be honest, I have thought about a center stand. However, in the first instance, i have emailed Scooter Centre Koln, to see how they would overcome this issue, as there must be lots of others in the same situation, so it will be interesting to see their reply.

[Dox]

Had same problem when I fitted revolver exhaust used car jack to gently splay the stand as it pushes with equal pressure and fitted Ali feet to make up for loss of height also took grinder to rotation stops just took a small triangle shape piece off.

[bryno]

Can't you just fit a later PX stand to avoid fit issues? that must surely work with the BGM exhaust.

[vespasco]

Out of interest, did you fit a new floorboard?

The reason i ask is - judging by where your stand bolts/bracket are, compared to the floorboard bracing, your centre stand bolts look closer to the engine....

You may need to drill 2 x new holes and move the stand forward. Likely reusing the two holes nearest the front of soot.

Have a look from above... Heres where my rally centre stand bolts are in relation to the chassis tunnel joint.


From underneath, the stand bracket pretty much butts up to the floor bracing.

That's my theory anyway!

[sime66]

Vespasco, that's exactly what I thought from the photos, but didn't chip-in because I thought maybe that's how it is on a Rally, but the brackets not butting up to the bracing caught my eye too.

[henri]

more likely there repro stand brackets ,or repro stand an end of brackets has been trimmed so stops touch chassis not brackets .that way stand rests more of a angle from vertical an scoot cant roll off if a dog farts behind it. its hard to find a decent stand nowadays ,with the stops welded in right place ,i mean a lot advertise stands as for 8" an 10" wheels .patently if used on 8" wheels the front ends up about 6" in the air .H

[vespasco]

The bracket looks correct in the pic. You can just make out the small 'fold'/raise in the bracket to accommodate the floor bracing.

Edit
Looking closer i think the fold is there for the when the stand is upright. 
But still, check those bolts are in the right place.

[sime66]

My brackets overlap the bracing, with the ridge, but that's a PX
(I know the springs wrong; sussed that when I put the exhaust on)

[vespasco]

Thats how mine are too, on the rally

[jedihunter]

both my rallys just overlap the brace.

If it were mine I'd look at adding some material to the stand to compensate for grinding some away for clearance. I'd hate to drill new bolt holes in a scoot with good paint, but that's just me.

[paulwaite]

Thanks for the replies and there does seem to be some merit in the positioning of the stand. But as you can see from the photos below, everything looked original. In re-building this Rally, I have used this link to make sure I am putting the bits together in the correct place and as you will see from this link, the brackets do butt up with the ridge.

Therefore, I might look at different brackets, or at the least consider reversing mine, which may give me an additional 25mm (or 1 inch for those in the USA) of space.

gallery.vespresso.nl/mr10/Rally200?page=11

So its got me thinking, have I used the correct brackets, but that what was in the bucket of stuff that I bought. Ahh, just re-looking at this link, it does look like I've got the brackets on back to front, so I may have solved it, let you know after the weekend.


A few Photos

Back in 2010, brought this Rally and plonked it in my garage. But the previous owner had stripped it down some years previous



View from the underside showing where i wanted additional welding, together with the original holes for the stand



Rally now sprayed with original stand holes, should have done a dry fit then.

[bryno]

The brackets really should overlap the frame brace a little as that helps spread the load across the brace rather than it all going directly through the flimsy floorboard.. which will result in cracked paint along the seams at the tunnel and a bent floor in time.

[vespasco]

Its weird. Your holes look in the right place compared to the centre tunnel joint.
Yet the brackets are not touching the bracing.

Anyway, i had a quick measure earlier....so you can have a quick check to see whats going on....

From the centre on the main swing arm bolt, to the centre of the first hole of the stand bracket, measures approx 235mm on my rally.
The P2 is 275mm, so much further forward than the pre P range.

And just for fun, on the Rally the bracing is approx 320mm from centre swing arm bolt to centre of bracing.
On P2 its 360mm

Putting the bracket on back to front would not move the stand any further.

Your brackets are on the correct way, just not necessarily in the right place?

You could do a mock up to see if it all works by using just two of the existing holes. Hopefully, if you're lucky, the brackets will sit nicely on the bracing too. It will also add strength to the centre stand and floorboards.

Or is it just that the bigbox just doesnt fit?

[paulwaite]

Thanks for all your replies, but problem with stand now sorted. Turned out that the stand that came with the rally was in fact for another type of vespa. It was a lot wider and shorter, probably for a PX

But before I came to that conclusion, I was not happy with the existing stand as it not only fouled the exhaust, but the scooter leaned too far over when it was on the stand and things like that bug me. So for the sake of a few pounds, I ordered a new stand and fittings.

Anyway, last night I gingerly fixed this stand and found that it cleared the exhaust. (See photos's below) Well, enough to satisfy me. In addition, the scooter sits vertical on the stand and without any wobble. May have to change rubber feet for alloy, but brackets do also sit on the side of the ridge

Moral of the story is that not everything that comes with a scooter, is original.

Also took it for a run last night with my re-fitted soaked clutch corks, tuned mallosi 210 and Ky-Tronik ignition and it pulled like a train, with great acceleration. Not upto TS1 standards, but there again, its only running with the standard upjetted carb.

[vespasco]

That still doesnt look that great.
Maybe its just the angle of the pics but it still seems to not reach the bracing?
I'm not sure if the stand would be ok in an MOT?

I'm curious to know how your measurements compare to mine now

[paulwaite]

It does look better in real life and probably has gone higher. Anyway, MoT tomorrow!!!!

As for your measurements, sorry for not getting back, but mine are spot on with yours.

[bryno]

If the inspector thinks there is any danger of it catching the road on a bend, it may fail, best give it a good kick up for the MOT ;-)

[paulwaite]

It passed today, road tax sorted and my MOT man is strict.

Actually, when you stand back, its now almost parallel with running board.

So out with lads tonight after tweaking carb a bit more

[henri]

good news , an a sweet looking rally too, many miles of grinnyness now hopefully , the dead flies on ya teeth taste nice when collected smiling on a scoot , H

[vespasco]

Excellent news!
Well done
And thanks for confirming the measurements
Looks nice in your profile pic... How about posting a few more of the scoot now its all done

[paulwaite]

Hi Vespasco, rather than clutter up this thread with lots of detail, see this link for the build story, that i have finally updated today

scooterotica.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=33228

But below are 3 photos taken after I finally rode it home at the end of August, after building it in my first floor office, much to the amusement of others.

[henri]

nice ,when i saw the scooterotica post ,i thought it was the tetley teabag one , but you had more metal to start with than that guy , really tidy job youve done there aswell . H

[vespasco]

That looks really nice. Makes me want to re-restore mine!
I notice a few modifications too
Although Im suprised you don't have the ball end levers, especially with your set up.
Kool

[paulwaite]

Aaaargh Vespasco, didn't realise that I had got the levers wrong and in fact nearly put the ball ended ones on. Anyway, from my boxes of Vespa parts, (see photo's) that I bought and feel that I got done at a storage wars type bid, I've dug the ball levers out, so that's a bit of a positive on the stuff that i bid for. So this weekend, I'll get the levers swapped over.

Boxes of spare parts




Ball end levers and straight levers with historic price tag

[henri]

Oooh ,at them prices i'll take a gross , i run my 76 with straight levers coz i like the look ,but ball ends is authentic , i think vespaco ment with your engine set up its best to have balls as there more controllable on take off .less slippy for fingers , H