Can anyone give me a brief intro to classic vespas

[blacksheep]

Hi,

Been trying to persuade my wife onto two wheels. I've got a bike and when I've finished tests and can afford it I plan on getting one of the new Royal Enfields to get the trade off between 50's style and ease of maintenance as I'll be commuting on it.

I have joked a couple too many times about her having a Vespa for us to go to 50's revival and rock and roll events together and tonight she has piped up and said she fancies one.

so, knowing nothing about classic vespas, and a scooter and moped being the same 'twist n go' in my mind I need an introduction to them to figure out what to be looking to get her and what route CBT and tests wise to guide her down.

my thoughts at the moment test wise are to do CBT on a geared bike, that way she can ride anything she likes, I doubt she'll be bothered about going bigger than 125cc so could just re-take CBT every other year, we'll have to see. Also, having only paid for CBT we find out if she likes riding and is comfortable doing so on the road.

bike-wise, it needs to look 50's to go with what we're wanting to do, needs to be 125cc to cope with the hilly roads around where we live and keep up with me on the bike (I'll be riding in such a way that we stay together) As it'll be a weekend thing for her (she has to have a car for work) then classic is fine, although wouldn't say no to a modern that looked the part

are classic 125's geared? are the controls similar to that of a modern geared bike? what would be a good model of Vespa to look at getting?

quite happy to get my hands dirty in restoring one, I've been into classic cars for some time so have some idea of what I'm doing.

Educate me!!!!!

thanks

[Lucia]

PX125 is probably the best one. Gears are controlled with left hand rather than the left foot though. Or there's the auto Vespa which are nice but don't have the same 'classic' look you're after. PM me - gotta go...!

[blacksheep]

cheers,

she needs to do CBT before we get anything, would love it to be original 50's / 60's but indeed the PX125 looks to fit the bill, and a later one can most likely be made to look a bit older without drastic work

when were the PX125's made between?

[Lucia]

Saying that though, she could do a CBT on a twist and go and use the school's scooter instead of buying her own - just to get the feel of riding on two wheels and feeling safe in traffic....confidence building etc. Then later down the line have a go on a geared scoot with L plates (as long as the CBT certificate hasn't expired - 2 years)

[Lucia]

PX 125, I think was 1977.

Here's a handy history timeline, from Vespa's official website:

www.uk.vespa.com/#/vespa/UK/uk/passion/timeline

[blacksheep]

Oct 25, 2012 10:47:37 GMT Lucia said:

Saying that though, she could do a CBT on a twist and go and use the school's scooter instead of buying her own - just to get the feel of riding on two wheels and feeling safe in traffic....confidence building etc. Then later down the line have a go on a geared scoot with L plates (as long as the CBT certificate hasn't expired - 2 years)

I was thinking she might be better off doing CBT on a motorbike as the brakes are the same (right bar front, right foot back) and clutch control, the only thing different to get used to then is the gears being in a different place instead of essentially re-learning as controls are different between geared and auto.

thanks for the timeline link

[sbwnik]

Controls on a traditional Vespa are the same as on a motorbike with only one exception - gears on the handlebars.

Clutch under left hand, front brake under right. Rear brake by right foot (although if you wanted to be picky, a traditional British bike would have it's gears under the right foot..). Gears on a Vespa are operated by the left hand twist grip instead of a floor pedal.

As to what scooter to start on, that's your call - I'd be inclined to agree with Lucia's suggestion, or the LML 125 equivalent (You know how your bike is an Indian copy of an English classic? Same with LMLs and Vespa) which is a cheaper bet.

The only 'DON'T' I would give you is the VBA/VBB models. There have been a lot of bad restorations brought into the country, I'll not go into the problems I've seen, but I've seen enough to know that I'd not risk riding one.

If you see something you fancy, post a link on here and someone will give you an idea as to if it's a good bet.

[blacksheep]

Thanks, I had seen the various discussions about, shall we say eastern 'restorations'

Are LML just a company that make imitations of the vespa design? are they decent bikes?

what are parts availability like?

Thanks

With the Enfield I'm looking at getting, it's technically a continuation of the British design, in a similar way to the VW Beetle being moved to brazil, in the early 60's Enfield moved all their tooling across and established the Enfield company of India, but I get what you're saying.

[sbwnik]

That's exactly what an LML is.

They have the same sort of history. LML made Vespas for the Indian market under licence. They fell out with the parent company. LML kept the tooling (good luck in the Indian courts there Piaggio!) and rebranded as LML.

In my experience.... (Others will disagree)

They're easily as good as 'genuine' Vespa PX125s. If i was in the market for a new 125 then that is what i would buy. Their chassis are a slightly thicker steel and the engines have the same general bulletproof-ness about them. Joys of the Indian buying public.

That's the plus points.

On the down side.. Electrics are very hit and miss, but a rewire is an afternoon of a job if you think it through. There was a patch in the early 00's (04 to 05 IIRC) where the crank bearings were particularly, and spectacularly, crap. That said, any issues should have been sorted by now. Avoid those years anyway.

Overall quality is good - certainly up with Piaggio Vespa quality - and spares availability is excellent due to an extended dealer network. Anyone with knowledge of P range Vespas can work on these machines quite easily, and if you're of a mechanical bent then i think you'll be impressed as to how simple an engine they are - no chains, no valves etc.

I'd buy one.





RIGHT LML, DO I GET THE JOB NOW?? :-D

[blacksheep]

so do vespa parts fit an LML?

[sbwnik]

To a point. Bodywork in interchangeable, but be aware there are variances in the Vespa version - Mk 1 horncast and handlebar top are different to later ones, panels on that model are unique too - but engine parts are a tricky one. From memory, the earlier models are exactly the same, but as time went by they became less and less interchangeable with the Vespa equivalent.. Best bet is to source parts from a LML dealer, they're cheaper anyway!

This is all before we get to the 4-stroke versions which look the same but are something like 80% unique!

If I was buying, I'd look for the 5 port/reed valve cylinder model first (nice and simple to fix, reasonable turn of speed) then the 4 stroke version. After that, it's a toss up between the standard three port model and the Vespa PX as to what you can get for the best price. Vespa will hold their value better, but cost a lot more to start with.

Finally, if someone offers you a T5 at good money, snatch it, but if it's the square headlight model, check the rear of the frame and the floor area for rot. Make sure it's got a central plug head though, I've known people try to pass off the LML five port engine as a T5. It's not, it's different, and it's not as good a motor.
The T5 is the sportiest geared Vep that you can buy, the LML 5 port is next.


Just wish I could remember what the various LML models were called.