tendency of PX200 to lean left when loosening grip

[Ilan]

greetings,

Ive just purchased a 2001 vespa PX 200. it rides well and strait, BUT, i do feel some tendency to lean/turn left (or fall left) whenever I let go the handlebar (well, not really let go, but loosen the grip a bit).


whenever I hold the handle bars normal,i dont feel anything unusual and the vespa goes wherever I point the steering.

furthermore, im pretty sure the bearings are ok. when on the center stand the steering is smooth with no abrubtions or hard points or grinding feeling. plus, as far as i checked there is no loosening.

is this normal for a vespa?

this is my first one ever and thats why I ask. As far as my logic goes, Vespa does have an uneven distribution of weight..

thanks in advance
rudi r

[bryno]

Hmm, with the engine on the right if anything it would pull right, but I've never noticed my T5 pull either way when I loosen grip on the bars. Worth checking there is no camber on the front wheel, an impact on the front end could put the forks out of true which knocks the wheel out of alignment...

[busterska]

worth getting your wheel alignment checked at your local scoot shop as well. if the previous owner has put different forks in then they may not be the right size spindle which will put your front and rear wheel out of line.

[Ilan]

peace,

I bought the vespa from a scooter shop.
so before i'll return to this shop, i think ill visit other scooter shops around just to look at it and tell me what they think..

ride safe
and if anybody here has another comment, ill be glad to hear

thanks
rudi

[pennocenti]

might also be worth checking if the front wheel has been put on the correct way around - sounds simple, but l've just repaired one guys scooter, who been riding like it for months, never noticed a thing ! Check your tyre pressures as well ! Always a simple one to miss !

[Ilan]

hi there

well, today i took the vespa to the shop. they said that the bottom steering bearings were bad so they replaced them (it).

The rim is facing the correct way. I've checked.

but now, something else happens - when i let off the grip from the bars, the whole front goes left right left right , pretty rapid .

a few hours ago I did think I should check the pressure, maybe thats the problem. A few days ago I stopped at a gas station and filled the front tire to 30 psi. Can that be it?

Ive seen on some pages the correct is 17 psi but I thought it seems very low. the vespa is 200PX model 2001, and I weigh 95KG....

[bryno]

I use 17psi front 25 rear on a PX T5, so should be about same for the P2..

[Ilan]

i'll try 17 psi today, see if it helps.

thanx.

[dave1967]

HI
If your still having the problem after re-doing the presure it might be worth checking the tyre, its a long shot but it could be possible that the tyre wall is breaking down, ie the little wires that run in the rubber on the tyre are breaking up causing the tyre to loose shape when under weight or heat.. If both walls are going this would cause the side to side movement you are now getting.

Dave

[Ilan]

greetings,

first, 17 psi is almost riding with no air. i have seen a lot of suggestions from riders to inflate the front to 17. i tried it and its almost dangerous, the vespa is not a real stable scooter, and with 17 psi front, the vespa feels like a leaf on an ocean in turns. PLUS, i sometimes ride with a friend in the back. I inflated the front to 30 and i feel way much better, the vespa that is feels much stabler.

another this I found is that the front shock two helen nuts were loose..... so i tightened it and braking is much more acurate and I feel no distorted feeling while hard braking.

regarding the tendency to go left, that disapeared after replacing the front bearing. but, theres still a slight head shake, when i let loose the grip. THE front tire looks good. I guess maybe the bearing nut has to be tightened a bit. i have a feeling this could help.

thats the news from my Vespa for today

BTW i wanted to add a photo of the vespa but the attachment limit is 1.4 kb ?! thats not enough for a smily ...

[Spence]

If you use photobucket you won't need to attach a picture, just insert a link in your post.

[bryno]

rudi said:

greetings,

first, 17 psi is almost riding with no air. i have seen a lot of suggestions from riders to inflate the front to 17. i tried it and its almost dangerous, the vespa is not a real stable scooter, and with 17 psi front, the vespa feels like a leaf on an ocean in turns. PLUS, i sometimes ride with a friend in the back. I inflated the front to 30 and i feel way much better, the vespa that is feels much stabler.
.

Hmmm, that's because 17 PSI is what it states in the Haynes workshop manual. My T5 handbook it suggests a bit more at 21 PSI, personally I think it is a risk to radically change what the scooter manufacturer states, they will have done their homework on finding the most suitable pressures for the vehicle, the P range has been with us for 25 plus years and I'm sure that many millions of owners have never considered running at the 'correct' pressure in any way 'dangerous'!

[Ilan]

hi,

well of course what I wrote is not a suggestion but my personal preference .

as i said, i tried 17psi in front, but the feel i got from the front end was a spaghetti feeling...
after riding Ducatis for years, i prefer steady and stiff over spaghetti....

PLUS, and thats I think the main variable while choosing a tyre pressure , im a big fela, about 95-100KG
i sometimes ride w passenger. that is 150 kg minimum. 17 psi front is not enough for this weight.

People are not the same.... skinny 45kg girls ride Vespas, as well as 100kg men.

SO they all need 17 psi front tire pressure, just because its written in HAYNES?

ride safe.

[bryno]

You are absolutely right that there are other variables to take into consideration, but to go back to your initial query, it does sound like there are other issues with your scoot which need to be addressed, IMO it's not down to your tyre pressures, at 17 PSI, it should ride well, run straight and not move side to side, if things improved at 30PSI maybe you are just masking the real problem...

Also worth checking if you have any play in the front wheel bearings, you should feel no movement when you grip the wheel top & bottom, the front bearings are notorious for wearing out, if you do need to replace them you can fit an additional one as well as the 2 fitted as standard, it then gives a greater area to spread the load on the bearings, I did it on mine recently after my dealer suggested it as a common mod....

[Ilan]

no movement at all ha?

well mine HAS a slight movement , not something disastrous, but still - it can not help a vespa be more stable......Im planing to get to it fixed soon.

the fact is with every check i find something to fix - used is used, even if its 2001 model..

I will try to see if I can fit a third bearing.....
thanks for the tip.

[Ilan]

hello world,

glad to announce that I replaced the two front wheel hub bearings and the head shake disappeared.
There are two bearings one is a ball bearing (6202) the other is pin bearing (2016). I think there is a room for one more 2016 bearing although have put just one.

Anyway, I did the work myself, the cost was about 10$ for both bearings (NSK) at a bearing shop.
I couldn't be more satisfied. I went for a ride, and at any given speed I loosen the grip of the handles and no shake or shiver whatsoever.

hallelujah.

[Ilan]

this is my vespa:

[Ilan]

ok, its here:

[bryno]

rudi said:

hello world,

glad to announce that I replaced the two front wheel hub bearings and the head shake disappeared.
There are two bearings one is a ball bearing (6202) the other is pin bearing (2016). I think there is a room for one more 2016 bearing although have put just one.

Anyway, I did the work myself, the cost was about 10$ for both bearings (NSK) at a bearing shop.
I couldn't be more satisfied. I went for a ride, and at any given speed I loosen the grip of the handles and no shake or shiver whatsoever.

hallelujah.

That's good to hear, I couldn't remember which bearing you put 2 of in, you'll have seen from taking it apart that there is a space between them that will fit the extra one in and give you a better spread of the load..

Nice scoot, those black florida bars are exactly what i'm in need of, can't seem to get them in black here, going to get a chrome set powder coated instead..

[pennocenti]

if you get the chrome florida's get them acid stripped then get them sent to a place that does electro pherictic painting (think that's how it's spelt) it's better than powder coat (as powder coat has uncontrollable thickness) this paint is applied via an electric charge, and is a dull mat colour, and very strong.

[bryno]

thanks for that, I'll see if I can find someone to do it, I had a brand new chrome rack powder coated a few months ago and its started to come off already, so I'm not keen to do the same again..

[jase]

Hi, I've just been reading your post with interest, all very good suggestions on here including the great tyre pressure debate (I use 20psi front and 30psi rear by the way!),
glad to see you've sorted the problem at last. But then I saw your photo! That rear box is HUGE! That can't be keeping the front end too stable! :-)

[Ilan]

hi,

well this is an old problem water under the bridge....
since, ive disassembled the engine....

to be honest in the beginning i had a love and hate relationship with the vespa. i really thought to my self "hey, what do you need this headache and noise, go buy yourself a new TAIWAN made 250 scooter and be happy". so, i took two test rides on 2 new scooters: the SYM JOYMAX 250 and the KYMCO GRAND DINK 250. both are fast, and by almost every practical thing, are to be better than the two stroke vespas. but, funny, i didnt like both of them. And it was a joy returning home with the "old" vespa. so, with this decision to keep the vespa, i decided to disassemble the engine to the smallest part. I wanted to know exactyly what im riding on, and more important, know that i can rely on the engine underneath, even when im far from home. So, I did do the job (myself) and the VESPA rides like a dream.

Its way smoother, quieter and faster. a very noticeable change. and im very ashamed to say that it turned out that i was riding with a cracked exhaust (i even opened a thread in this board about it...) anyway, that was welded too among all the things I did. (for my defence i shall say it is my first vespa so i didnt really know how noisy its really supposed to be and sec, the crack was on the top of the exhaust..... ill see if i can attach a pic here...)

SO, what I did? I replaced ALL the bearings (even though some were OK, like the rear wheel bearing, but i was not planing to open the cases again in a year, so, i replaced even what seemed to be fine at this point...). ALL oil seals were replaced ,..... the crank it self , piston rings, piston bearing....in short almost every part......

yeh i know, it cost me big bucks , something like 450$$$ . but hey, it was worth every cent...

[Ilan]

here is the notorious crack...


and the cases....

[Lan]

if you want a bit of extra performance you can always buy a sito plus exhaust it looks pretty much the same as the standard but with tht extra ooumph, if you install one of those though you will probably have to go one main jet higher than the standard which on the autolube models is a 118 i believe

[Ilan]

Hi there,

I do want an extra performance and I'm about to order a combination of PINASCO 215 kit and a SIMONINI exhaust

this is from scomo.net

I have wondered what should I do about the jetting. I have asked scomo tech support a few times regarding this, but i got no answer yet...
I dont think i will find bigger jets localy, but the worst situation is buying the original jets here, and drilling them... (yeh i know it sounds wierd but it can be done manually with tiny drills especially for this job)

rudi.

[bryno]

Or just get a few posted out from the UK (or wherever you are getting your exh from), they are only about £6 here, plus cost of a stamp to Israel

[Ilan]

thats possible too
first let me get my hands on the 215 cylinder kit and a simonini and the rest is easy...

[joey]

Don't bother with the simmo pipe, they are poo! A sito+ is a better option but sounds sh*t and falls to pieces after a short while. Much better to bite the bullet and opt for a PM or Taffy especially with the kit.
30 psi is way too much in the front, too much scope for a blowout...20 front 30 rear, 35 if you go 2's up.

[Ilan]

hi
turned out i did ride a modified vespa with a pinasco and simonini (just all this time i thought it had a malusi cylinder kit) . anyway, the vespa rides very well with this combo. the owner weighs at least as i weigh (95 kg in a good day...) and his vespa is way stronger then mine, in every speed.. and the sound....oh man...very nice...

and , it looks great, better than the "golden pages book" muffler...
plus, it takes the smoke out way back and not under you..

btw what are you basing your suggestion on?


here is a link to a comparission of 14 vespa exhausts. the simonini gives a few horses more than the sito..
vintagescooters.free.fr/tuning/px200_exhaust/px200_exhaust.htm