new bearing sets

[doulsy]

are these ok for my 78 p200 engine?

bearing set

i have cleaned all the engine cases and im now ready to fit the new bearings.

[sime66]

There's lots of sets that'll do, but you'll be paying a hell of a lot for all your engine parts if you get one or two items at a time – You'll be ordering seals next, then..., then...., then..., . I did a full schedule and price comparison of everything I was going to need, and got most of my stuff in two big orders; one with Scootercentre Germany, and the other with Beedspeed. Those bearings alone, you'd save best part of £15 by going to Scootercentre (OEM: €59+5=€64 = £46), and more still if you did a big order because postage is the same, €5, whatever you order. If you do buy off Ebay, don't go by the picture – that shows SKF, but the listing says might be SKGF/FAG/INA – you can bet it won't be all the best ones when it arrives; check what they're sending out with a message before you order.
H has good advice about ordering from bearings suppliers, but I never quite found all the ones I wanted on their sites.
If you have the means of reading a spreadsheet (.xls or Open Office calc for example) if you PM me an email address I can send you a spreadsheet schedule of all the parts, part numbers, a link to SIP and Beedspeed web pages for each item I needed for building an engine from just casings (including the bearings with other options there too), and the up-to-date prices when I did my orders a few months ago. It looks like this:



But if you can open it, you can follow the links to the up to date prices on the web pages, update the schedule and decide how best to spread the orders out.

If you want to just buy the bearings, maybe take a look a Wasp and add these prices up; they're all SKF listed in the description; they will not send you rubbish. £4.99 for a heavy order. Free postage over £100 (you can easily spend that on your engine bits). If you need bearing dimensions and SKF references, I have that on a spreadsheet too, but it's pretty straight forward – SIP do a good list of sizes.

Here's Wasp bearings page:
www.wasp-performance.co.uk/shop/search.php?q=engine+bearing+set

Here's SIP bearings data table:
www.sip-scootershop.com/files/catalogue/index.html#/167

That should give you a few things to think about.....................

[doulsy]

thats a magic reply sime, will pm my email cheers, think i need told what to buy lol

[sime66]

I've emailed the spreadsheets Doulsy.
Do thoroughly check everything you order; especially as mines for 125/150 casings, and for EFL gearbox – so be careful; just use my list as a guide and links to items. You'll see some parts missing from the spreadsheet where I had, or bought, 2nd hand before I had to buy new. You'll notice that if you update prices it will automatically add it to the order column of the cheapest of Beedspeed and SIP; so if you put a price in and don't see a total it's because the alternative supplier is cheaper – it's spreadsheet magickery that helped me sort my orders out, but might throw you off if you didn't know. All the links will save you ages searching anyway.
All you have to do is update the item prices and number off required, and it will put it in the right supplier's order and update their totals.
That'll all make sense when you open it and play about, you can PM me if you're not sure.

[henri]

as sime says ,the listing seems expensive to me ,an skf an fag are good bearings ,ina i dont know , H

[sime66]

I wasn't sure about INA either, but I was doing a Wasp order this morning, and saw Wasp sell INA (made in Germany) small end bearings. - Just for interest, like.

[doulsy]

wasp has a nadella bearing for main bearing fly wheel side, says its a genuine part, they only other one is sip which is double the price, also rear hub bearings come sealed or non sealed?

[paulwaite]

INA are good German bearings. MB sell INA small end bearings ie abstract from their site

"This German made bearing is ideal as an upgrade in most pistons.
This is the only small end bearing where we have never seen a failure in over 20 years.
MRB's preferred small end bearing in all applications Road or Race."

[sime66]

I don't know about NAD roller bearings, you might have to wait to see what others say - *just checked; made in Italy - . The thing is with SIP; I don't believe SIP have a bearing factory (could be wrong), so basically you have an unbranded bearing of unknown origin with a SIP reference number stamped on it; I don't particularly trust SIP to be sure that is any better than the NAD – it might even be the NAD - SIP won't answer you if you ask then precisely what it is.
Hub bearings and different engine ages are a bit of a mystery to me too – did you make a note/photograph what was there before?? I have external hub seals on my '82 and '83 engines, so use a sealed bearing with the inner of the two seals removed; it gets lubricated by my gear oil and the outer seal serves as an additional seal.
MB – the company that dumped the Schwalbe tyre fiasco on us! - I always skip past anything that says MB on it, or anything that MB says, as a matter of personal principle; they won't knowingly get my money again. It does seem INA are decent, German bearings though.

[henri]

skf an fag are german too , originally , skf an i think fag too manufacture outside europe nowadays .skf in india ,but to german tolerances an quality for stock bearings .its mostly only the high end high load an weird small runs conversion bearings actually fully made in sausage territory .on anything better than stock i use japanese bearing for the clutch side which takes the higher loading .4-5 quid more but never had a problem with them ,everywhere else skf ,an realised i have used ina before ,for tree roller bearings as thats what came in a bearing kit i bought .maybe the bearing set you looked at will be the same as that.
as sime says for output shaft bearing ,get the shielded/sealed one an remove inside seal if running a outside hub seal .dont worry about washing out the grease it will mix with gear oil an have little detrimental effect if any . H

[doulsy]

in this link to wasp bearings and seals for a 1978 p200e engine

p200e bearings

i have picked 1,3,7,8,10,12.13 and 21 x14

would that be right? and my oil seal for hub goes on the outside? sorry  but i just want to make sure im getting the correct stuff, is there a certain type of gasket set thats prefered?

[sime66]

I'm probably too late with this reply; been busy and didn't see it, sorry about that, but you might still get something out of this reply:

i have picked 1,3,7,8,10,12.13 and 21 x14 would that be right?
You have the right items. Have you got the correct main bearing seal though? What seal did you remove? Is there a groove where it will sit? Photo? I would expect Wasp to be correct with sizes, but the onus is on you to spend the time checking dimensions if you choose to do so – you have the link to those dimensions above. Did you add the cost up?

and my oil seal for hub goes on the outside?
If you say so; I haven't got a '78 p200 to hand? Got a photo? If you have an external seal the inner size of seal you need is dictated by the hub; that's how it works on 125/150 engines anyway, I expect it's the same – what seal did you remove? Some older engines have a different arrangement I'm not familiar with.

is there a certain type of gasket set thats prefered?
The Piaggio (green gasket) sets with all the 'O'rings is favourite. I see that Wasp don't have a p200 specific one. I think the difference is just carb stuff, so might not matter – the carb gaskets are pretty rubbish, and by the time you've made them fit you might as well have made your own, which I do now for the carb. Chap at Wasp is Dave Walsh, he's very helpful and there is a 'contact us' button on the website. Wasp is slow this week because of weather and power cuts; I'm still waiting for my Monday order. The exact one is on the Scootercentre site here:

www.scooter-center.com/en/product/7670172/Gasket+set+engine+PIAGGIO+Vespa+PX200+Rally200?meta=7670172*scd_ALL_en*s19367840032816*engine%20gasket%20set*40*40*3*16

- You'll see why I said it's cheaper/more efficient to look at everything you'll need, not just one item at a time, get your orders organised; otherwise you'll spend loads on postage, and time waiting for parts, getting the odd item that you could have got with a previous order, for example those gasket sets never have clutch cover 'O'rings - .99p if you get it now, or .99p +£1.49 p&p if you get it later; do that over the whole job and you're wasting time and money on extra orders. Didn't you have to get a bit medieval on the casings with some seized-in studs? Have you replaced those? Washers, spring washers, nuts? Etc....etc....etc.... If I were doing it again (with a new/different/unfamiliar engine) I'd be spending some time getting familiar with all of it, and locating all the parts I'll need; that's why I sent you my spreadsheet of all the parts. I'm not familiar with the differences of older pre-px engine differences from px, or exact 125/150 differences from 200 either; I think you should do some rooting around and familiarising yourself with your engine and what you need.

[henri]

you'll need the 200 specific gasket set ,the base gasket is different to 125/150 ones , i'm using norrie kerrs VE(UK) gasket sets nowadays as thats what my local scoot shop stocks . there ok quality an dont need much fettling to be perfect . H

[sime66]

Deffo a 200 gasket set. I was distinguishing between P and PX set, which I think is only the carb , which I think is only the Autolube, which I think don't matter a buggery 'cos the carb gaskets aren't worth using anyway (I don't mean don't use them, Doulsy; I mean you're better off making them). the one on Wasp....:

www.wasp-performance.co.uk/onlineshop/prod_2442890-Gasket-Set-PX200E.html

....has all the extra goodies (except the clutch cover 'O' ring), but is autolube - this wouldn't bother me, but I'm unsure of other differences (P-PX). If Doulsy is doing a Wasp order and they don't have P200 one, this might do. - Or I gave a link to the specific one on Scootercentre, which he might well find in UK, esp VE, using the Piaggio reference on the Scootercentre website, maybe.

Maybe even, you can use the autolube gaskets if the carb and box are non-autolube (the other way round is BAD news) - I've never needed to know.............

[doulsy]

Thanks for the replies, i never took the old bearings out i got mot station to do it but kept the old ones, i will have a look for some pictures before i stripped it and compile a list to order, thanks again guys.

[doulsy]

i have ordered my bearings and two oil seals as well as cruciform and a load of other bits to take it over the free postage barrier, then i ended up buying a Tameni standard type crank  couldnt find anyone who who would test the second hand crank i bought and it had been bothering me about putting a second hand one in, anyway i have read good things about Tameni, think they used to be called mec or merc europe, so someone tell me i have done the right thing

[henri]

tameni are good cranks , you did right ,ok, H

[sime66]

Sounds like you got yourself organised in the end; glad to hear it.

I saw your clutch question; hoping someone else answers it because I only know what they told me!
I do have a long thread (or three), about 18 months ago, when I was deciding what clutch to go for when I rebuilt the other engine; there was no consensus between Mk1 and Cosa really, and my decision then might well differ from what you decide to do, or what I would do now, but look back through my stuff if you like and you'll find plenty to chew over.

[doulsy]

Dec 17, 2015 7:02:05 GMT sime66 said:

Sounds like you got yourself organised in the end; glad to hear it.

I saw your clutch question; hoping someone else answers it because I only know what they told me!
I do have a long thread (or three), about 18 months ago, when I was deciding what clutch to go for when I rebuilt the other engine; there was no consensus between Mk1 and Cosa really, and my decision then might well differ from what you decide to do, or what I would do now, but look back through my stuff if you like and you'll find plenty to chew over.

Came accross your thread lastnight, right at the top of my google lol, i know you have to do stuff to mk1 125 ect, no sure about the 200 though, i have henri on it :-)