PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
Not for this engine, mainly to play and learn; I’m happy with what I have, and wouldn’t want to abandon the setting up so far anyway, and I’m still learning the Si carb really. I’m just curious and like fiddling and learning stuff, and these carbs were sort of next on the list. I don’t mind if it isn’t worth messing with at all either; I’ve had a couple of educational evenings with the Dellorto Bible, the online (SIP, Scootercentre, Eurocarb, Wasp) catalogues for the size ranges and explanations for each part, and following it through with a working model in bits and sussing it out, it was only cheap anyway. Saw the AS & AV length differences, and a size table for the needles – a lot of other stuff to take in too, on first few reads. Dellorto Bible Here: projectmopedmanual.info/manuals/dellorto/dellorto-phbg-manual.pdf Here, and links from this page, were quite useful too: www.bristollambretta.com/dellortojettingneedles.htm I’d half thought I might end up using it on ‘Beast 2’ if and when I get round to deciding what to do with the other engine, but nearer the time I’ll ask about other carb options; that’s all a long way off ‘cos I’m not in the mood to start again, or even decide what it will be, though the engine can’t sit for ages. This summer is fun; this autumn is front end swap for disc brakes and rust-work at rear and above engine - and engine mounts. (I would quite like 'Beast 2' to end up back in my scooter though; it’s the original engine). I had already gathered that there are so many new sets of jets, slides, needles etc. to buy, that is was going to be expensive to start getting a load of new bits to set it up, and although I’ve got the circuits clear in my mind now, I still don’t really fully understand the needle; (restricting the free area in the tube to different degrees as throttle opens, depending on size and taper – bigger needle is richer earlier or something). Anyway, it’s not a subject for this engine or this thread, though I will still try to suss what it’s doing because it’s still bugging me. On the weekend I just did lots of miles in the sunshine, and not much tweaking or recording data; I’m happy enough with it as it is, riding around all day and all types of road with no problems or worries, although with time I’ll tweak some more I suppose. Temp is under control; I still have the 42/160 and unblocking the slide hole in mind, but I was happy to leave it as it is at least until after next weekend – it’s good to go, and it’s going good.
Ooh , a "right-hand" 28mm dell ,wrong side for a large frame ,can be used but very fiddly . but just happens to be right side for a smallframe an a "preferred" size. so if ya dont break it i'll help you find a "home" for it . H
if its got wheels n makes a noise I wanna play with it, skateboards included coz "skate-punks rule",
Just so you chaps don’t think I’ve lost interest in this now I’m thinking about clearing away some other jobs……….
H, undeterred by having my lovely purchase described as a ‘relic’ (how rude), I have now acquired its little brother; a left-handed PHBH26 with Powerjet (I’ve read what that’s for in the Dellorto Bible and have absolutely no idea at all if it’s good or bad for us, but that isn’t important). Anyway, I don’t anticipate wanting to get rid of the right-hand 28 any time soon, but if I do, you can have first refusal, though there’s cheaper ones on Ebay right now anyway. Maybe I’ll never use either of them, but the 26 especially was so cheap; even in spare parts it’s worth it, and I needed an undented metal float bowl for the 28, and this second 26 carb was less than a new bowl. Anyway; I’m happy playing with my vintage/classic toys, taking things apart, sussing them out and stuff. On the matter of the SI jetting for this engine, I checked where my mix screw was; it was 1¾ on the 45/160, so as it’s getting warmer too, I thought I’d try the 42/160 while I was out measuring the shock mount (I can wind mix screw out a bit as suggested and to get it tweaked again) – I’ve not tweaked or ridden it yet, but I’ll update when I do in next few days if there’s anything interesting to report. Over the weekend I’ve been riding it without recording too much, just getting a feel and tweaking it a bit leaner as I go, and as weather warms up; hoping to unblock my air and reach a decision on the slide; keeping an eye on temps and plug, obviously. Still riding and tweaking, just not much to report, so my mind’s turned to clearing some rooms at home of bits of engine…………
thats more like it,, forget the recording,, feel the ride so are you going for a ragged edge tune and feeling the force i prefer my jetting rich and ride it on the ragged edge! hahaha
Once that pilot jet is weak enough to be over 2 turns out, you might not need the BE3+2. See if you can tell without looking at the temp gauge
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
The BE3+2 is what I have my eye on next, and the AC160 is already back in. I’m on 2¼ turns with the 42/160, but need a proper ride and a few stops when hot and maybe tweaks to be sure. If I do change the BE3+2 I’ll definitely know without the CHT; that was a specific lull in pulling that we drilled the BE3 to solve – I’ll know straight away if it returns. It’s particularly warm this weekend, so I’ll be careful if we have any frosty starts when I have a long, hilly run to do (like last weekend). Don’t want falsely lean jetting and come unstuck when normal weather is resumed.
Arse-O-Meter says: “Pah! Is that it, then?” Quick update; 20°C out today (15°C warmer than last tweak), engine temps safe/low (130°C) but felt sluggish and speeds down, revs-out in 2nd quite noticeably too. I’m not going to tweak until later this weekend; it’s rich because it’s warm, and to be honest, I just ain’t in the mood for it today – I’m wound up with a couple of rows going on elsewhere. Maybe only lean at low revs now, maybe not even there, maybe a mix tweak from 2¼, maybe a 138MJ for the Summer, maybe unblocking the slide air too, probably could clean the filter pod; tweaks needed for sure if we get some prolonged warm weather. I’ll think about it and tweak it another time. Here, for interest; just a bit warmer and it’s all change:
I haven’t been on the scooter since last weekend, but this weekend looks splendid; I think my Pilot is good, I may fiddle with my Mixer, and I hope to drop my Main to 138 if it’s still very warm – I’m also thinking about unblocking the Slide air (I need to run it to pinpoint any high or low points again before deciding where to tweak). I’m also waiting for a parcel from ScooterCentre (due tomorrow) so I can get on with those jobs on Old faithful, so I’ve got a busy weekend, but in the meantime I’ve been having a ponder about gears again…..
I’ve been having a right-old head scratch in the last few evenings, since I stumbled across Tony Cassidy’s Lambretta Gear Box Visualiser, which is a thing of beauty beyond my current Excel capabilities, but I was already half-way there with what I’d done previously, and I love the way it shows the rev-range against speed in each gear, so I thought I’d try to add a viualisation table to my own sheet. It’s a work-in-progress, and I’m posting now to see if anyone can help me with knowing where the stages of power are for each gear; I have to decide:
Out of Power Range – ‘red line’, Approaching Peak Power, Peak Power Range, Below Peak Power.
From my own MicroDyno results and graph, so using 3rd gear, I have some info; I know: Out of Power Range was highest recorded RPM = 8927 Peak Power = 7760 Peak torque = 5631 (Peak range = 5631-7760?) I’m really not sure how far Below Peak Range is still useful in a gear, or if it’s that important anyway; I’ve used 4000rpm for a start point. That’s roughly the info I’ve used to shade my table.
Knowing those is just to make the visualisation of the chart easier to read; the revs themselves are correct wherever you set the ranges. I could really do with some help understanding the ranges to get my shading correct on the table.
It is far from finished, but I think it’ll be useful; it’s easily customisable for any Clutch, Primary and Gear combination (yes I can do one for your scooter if you’re interested and have all the input data), it takes into consideration tyre circumference too.
Having just knocked it up to this point, I think it also shows why my 2nd gear is so easy to rev-out now, and maybe why there's not so much more in 4th. I think it will also be good to play with other clutch gears, and see the changes, which is why Tony’s has two tables side-by-side for comparison.
The Lambretta Gear Visualisation is available here – you need Excel, Open Office or similar: avantone.wordpress.com/
There is nothing downloadable for Vespa except this screenshot below, though I have emailed Tony to see if he’ll let me have a .xls copy; mine was nearly there anyway, except for his excellent way of showing it climbing through the gears, I’ve ‘borrowed’ that idea to make mine easier to read:
Liking this just wondering why are you changing your rev range in each gear? Surely the torque and revs would be the same in each, or am I missing something?
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
No, you're not missing anything, I am; that's why I'm asking for some clever help before I get myself too far up a blind alley.
I've got data for 3rd from MD, and I know from GPS that my max speed (therefore max RPM) in 4th is lower. I've guessed lowest usable as 4000, and I've got my torque and power from 3rd, so range as 5631-7760 - I think.
...It's the ranges, peak and minimum (making the colours mean something more than my approximation they are now) that I need some help with.
here's something we have talked about before that you can prove on your comparison...for yours to go as fast as possible it is actually over geared (as a tourer is) at the moment. A 20/68 would achieve the highest top speed on the road but wouldnt be so nice to ride.
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
All of those previous conversations are frsh in my mind; they're a few pages back, but it's because I'm thinking about the gears that I started looking at this again. Can we go back to what you said an hour ago; you say torque and revs would be the same in each gear? Can we put some numbers on those then? This is what I said above, and whas the bit of it all that I'm unsure on and asking for some input:
Out of Power Range was highest recorded RPM = 8927 Peak Power = 7760 Peak torque = 5631 (Peak range = 5631-7760?)
I know 4th doesn't go as high as 3rd, effectively it runs out of steam before it gets to those revs. We had a discussion a few pages back about what that margin can be before thinking about changing gearing, but that isn't so much what I'm thinking about at the moment, I'm trying to get the principles of it right. - From my MD data and the graph, what is my Redline, Peak Power, peak range? - I've done my best to approximate.
To settle the 20,21,22t question, I'll go back, find the bit where we talked about it, and paste it again here, but that isn't particularly what i was thinking about at the moment...........
.......…it was further back than I thought, page 16. It’s about the time of introducing the RamAir filter, but before the Vortex, so we’re talking about slightly different numbers, but the conclusion at the bottom is the bit that stuck in my mind, which is that 20T might give me a higher max speed at the expense of a decent ride; neither of which I want, and that the Jury’s still out on whether or not I should use a 22T, until I’ve got some final fixed figures when I’ve finished playing with my jetting. My figures are probably down on my best at present because it’s warmed-up and I haven’t caught up and settled on my jetting.
and here’s the edited highlights (which I will read again to make sure my understanding is correct and still relevant):
I'll add in a 20T table later, or in the morning, to see if it better illustrates the point; maybe it'll give me a chance to improve my shading a bit too....................I'll be back! (maybe)
.....Here we go then, I'll put them in order later; it gets complicated moving cells over without checking they're still using the correct source cells, so I want to do it carefully, and I do my best thinking in the morning anyway. I'll give it all a tidy when I've got all the unknowns sorted out. I've also left this unshaded and without the irrelevant figures faded out, or any attempt at showing the ranges; I've done this deliberately to show why I need some help with the ranges to get them accurate and easy to read and compare. Here it is:
Maybe a 22T clutch and a 36T 4th would be good...............................................
Last go tonight, put in order and applied the same principle to all for the shading for range, so even if not correct they are the same. (gone 4000 - 8000, with optimum range as 5500-7800):
Juat a final thought, because I can't leave it alone now............
Looking at my current gearing, the 21T in the middle, and comparing my gear changes going by Arse-O-Meter (roughly 40kph, 60kph and 80-90kph - depending on if I'm caning it or not), and seeing where the optimum ends or overlaps between gears; they're just about spot-on. Must be close to getting things right..........?
Yes I've seen that before; it's OK but limited. For example you can only input standard tyres, not an accurately measured one. Anyway, this is hopefully going to be a step on from that; the Gearbox Visualiser is to compare and tweak individual gears and see the changes side-by-side. When I've got it all ship-shape it'll maybe be a bit clearer.
This spreadsheet would be even more useful that the one I use! I use mine to pick the gearing I want for the kind of ride I want the scooter to have, then tune the engine to make that happen This also works the same for tuning adjustments (like the guy with HB200 and 5 speed box). When it doesn't perform as you want, tweeking a barrel or piston to get more torque or rpm is way cheaper and easier than changing a gearbox. If you're into expansion exhausts, then it gets really complicated for the decision making.
You can see with your scooter that in theory the 22/68 gearing makes it go faster but this would not quite the be reality. On occasion it would go faster (ie. downhill with the wind behind) but generally you would spend most of your time changing between 3rd and 4th, probably even while cruising if the weather is bad. As with the 21/68 it is already significantly less max rpm in 4th than 3rd, then up gearing without more power, would just make this worse. For absolute max speed gearing, the max achievable rpm in 3rd and the max achievable rpm in 4th should close to but less than the same.
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
You’re welcome to a copy of the spreadsheet, either as it is, or when I’ve got it how I want it and tidy it all up – I’m still fiddling with it as you can see, and at some stage, when I’m happy with it, I’ll start afresh and lay it all out better on a clean sheet.
This is was what I mentioned at close of play yesterday, and taking into account what you wrote this morning too, it made me knock up a quick comparison, which is quick and easy to do. Here’s my 21T clutch, but with a 36T 4th gear, which just lowers 4th from a ratio of 5.4 to 5.55:1, which is closer to the 5.67:1 I’d have got with the 20T clutch, but this way only affects 4th:
Right you lucky people! This one has Conditional Formatting applied to the Cells in the Output table, so it greys-out results that are too high or low, and shades the remaining ones depending on the parameters set in the new little Engine Charicteristics table at the bottom, where info from riding or Dyno results need to be input or estimated.
I'll say again; some help with getting the correct figures here would be handy, for now I've taken the numbers directly off my MD result - I could do with some experienced advice on this bit. In any case, no more long-winded looking at the table and highlighting and colour-filling the cells; it does it automatically to the four numbers input at the bottom.
Here she is:
You beauty!
Edit: ..........This isn't my best bit of film ever and I've run out of time this morning, but it shows the table updating automatically as I change the Clutch Gear from 20 - 21 - 22 with the Conditional Formatting applied, I still need to get Engine Characteristics table at the bottom correct, but it's going to be a good little tool:
....Definately last thought on it this morning; you could play with your engine characteristics in the bottom table as well as your gears, moving the bands (with barrel and piston tweaking) for the same gears.....................................
It'll need a tweak or two to tidy it up before I pull it off my big spreadsheet, or you can have it 'warts an' all' now, but there's a few things I know I want to improve. (For example, as a stand-alone Gearbox Visualiser, it needs other boxes for data that I pull from other parts of my spreadshet - the tyres for example) Do you have Excel or Open Office running on something? Happy to send the file for you to play with. This is my spreadsheet how I left it; it's got one panel that pulls the data from elsewhere in the sheet, and another for tweaks - both updating live as variables change:
I think there's already a tab for your Rally on the spreadsheet for when I did some gear/speed tables for you engine too, maybe I can put a copy of the Gearbox Visualiser on your tab, and not worry too much about tidying my spreadsheet up until I've finished tweaking it all; leave it with me................... Up to date Open Office might actually be better than my old Office for this Conditional Cell Formatting anyway; this one's done on Office 2000PE, and there's only three settable condition fields in 2000. I have Open Office too, so I'll check it sometime before I send it.
This is the Conditional Formatting table with only three fields, which makes it quite tricky to get it showing right:
Can we spend a moment on Power, Power Band, Power Range etc., and get some agreed principles?
I’m going to use my New Gearbox Visualiser as an example, so far I’ve asked for some input to get this bit right, but I’m still fumbling about in the dark to some extent.
I spent an hour or so on Vespasco’s spreadsheet last night, and his Gearbox Visualiser really does illustrate why I need some input on this bit. I’m going to jot this down, and hope for some answers while I go out to play on my scooter, and later I’m splitting Old Faithful to tap my new drain, but I’d like to tidy this up before I leave it – and before I set it free for others to tinker with……….
At the moment I’m showing the bright green as what I think is the Powerband, and the definition for Powerband I’m using is The rev range between Peak Torque and Peak Power.
I need to establish how to input the figures for:
‘Kick’ - The minimum revs where the gear is coming on; can we do better than me just guessing 4000? Is there something on the graph curve I can use? ‘Peak Torque’ – I’m taking this from MD, but Arse-O-Meter might be useful (especially on Vespasco’s where his graph is just a hump with no plateau). ‘Peak Power’ – I’m taking this from MD results. ‘Redline’ – Initially I took this as the max recorded revs (in my case 8927), but there’s quite a rev range on mine between Peak Power Revs and Max Revs; that big red band on the Gearbox Viualiser looks wrong to me, especially for example in 4th where I know those figures are not achievable – in 4th my Max Power Revs and Max Revs are closer, as is confirmed by the speeds I’ve achieved in 4th. My max recorded in 4th = 116kph (73MPH), which is about 7650, which is also my Peak Power Revs (7760), but not my Max Revs (8927). Using Max Revs for Redline don't look right to me.
It is easier to fiddle with these now that there’s a box at the bottom of the table, but I’d still really like to get the principles agreed to help my understanding, rather than just produce a pretty spreadsheet.
When I did vespasco’s last night, the range between Peak Torque and Peak Power is very narrow, so some common sense (like a figure above and below which his humpty-back torque curve is useful) would be helpful. In the right-hand (the tweaking) pane of his Gearbox Visualiser I’ve left his gearbox alone and changed the Engine Charicteristics figures to be above 5000, which is almost 1000 before Peak Torque. I used his last MD on here, which might not be his current best, he did sod-off for six months, so I’ve lost track a bit – (it’s the latest one on ‘Rally Modification’, vespasco). You’ll see how the different shaped torque and power curves make his bright green in each gear look very narrow, although I realise there’s plenty before and after - or you have to ride at 5900-6200rpm everywhere?? Mine just peaks the torque at 5631 and pretty much stays there for the full range up to Peak Power at 7760. On mine I can pretty much stay in green all the way, and those change-overs on the Visualiser compare really well with my gear change speeds by feel. Mine’s a few posts above, and here’s vespasco’s:
i'm also trying to get my head round it as i know very little about reading them properly or the jargon
my lame guess is; is it where, for example on a dyno graph, where power/torque is being being produced at a faster ratio than the rpm, same in reverse for redline and same for kick... Kick - i can only guess use the 4000rpm, as thats where the dyno starts but going by the graph only, that would be upto around 4600rpm, below 5000rpm anyway from there on power starts to flatten out, rising slower than the rpm judging by the curves on my graph, peak power and peak torque pretty much match, at 6246rpm.
In real situations on the road, reading from my rpm and digi speedo i can just about squeeze 60mph in third, just below 8000rpm if i try really hard. but 56mph is the maximum time to change if im trashing it, as theres not much more to be had really. In 4th gear, 72mph = 7300rpm (its very hard to read at those speeds on the Rally) but does match the dyno at just below 7300rpm for where power torque drop off/redline and realistically, on the road, it will pull upto 63mph in most conditions, headwinds/hills, etc, which ties in with the peak power/torques @6246rpm. These charts are proving interesting i can see there is room for improvement, although going faster than i do now on the Rally is not something I want to do. And the trade off for the fun i have with accelerating away is not worth it either, although thats more to do with my choice of pipe It really does help visualize whats going on.
All looking very interesting. Easier than looking at all the numbers on tables that I do. I do enjoy doing it but this does look easier.
I would say it should really be scaled by rpm and not speed, maybe like 100 rpm increments.
It is fairly safe to assume that the fastest speed would be at the top of the power curve; the redline would start after that. The power torque curve would be as good as the same rpm in each gear. The kick is the thing...where does this start? It is where the power band (yes, scooters have them too!) starts to pull the gear.
I know where mine starts to pull hard. If you knock up a quick chart for mine (22/65, P2 box), we can try to calibrate it
PX200E with 221 Malossi, max power at 8300rpm, VHSH30CS, 175 main jet PX200E Tourer, tuned original barrel, SIP road II, SI26/26 135 main jet, vortex 1050cc Triumph ST 600cc Honda CBR
This is only getting a cursory glance from me while I wake up this morning because the forecast is excellent, so it’s a day for scooting down to the seaside for ice cream and chips……….. However I had a quick glance at yours last night, vespasco and yours this morning, pxguru, so here’s some quick thoughts:
Generally: The numbers in the table are accurate whatever you set the engine characteristics at, and the engine characteristics can now be altered and the table (grey-fading and colouring) updates automatically, so setting the engine characteristics is not something that’s preventing me finishing the Visualiser. By your offerings of definition you both refer to road feel, so I’m inclined to let each set their own characteristics, based on Dyno and/or Arse-O-Meter. The left pane is intended to be the current engine condition and the right pane for experimental tweaks; those can be gearbox and/or engine characteristics. (You can see in vespasco’s example where I lowered his peak torque rpm to 5000 to increase his power band). I’m hesitating to continue to try to talk about three engines here; maybe I should have started this topic elsewhere; I was hoping we could establish some general principles and definitions, but that’s looking unlikely. I’ve tried to give a specific reply to the obvious things below; if I’ve missed anything I’ll try to pick it up later. This subject is for morning cogitation for me really; it’s too nice outside, and I have a split engine to get sorted and back together when I return this afternoon too, so this might have to wait until next week now… Basically chaps; I’m not on this job at the moment! (Though I really do think it’s going to be useful, and will get on with it again as soon as I can). Excel/Open Office doesn’t understand vague; it needs a formula, to make a formula I need an agreed method that works in all cases.
Vespasco: What I was trying to say to you was that on mine, and using my Dyno, I am pretty much within the green (power) band, slipping through the gears from 30kph to 115kph - you could draw a diagonal line up through my table and stay in green; with possibly some tweaking of my 4th (a point I mentioned and showed, but was missed a few posts above) my engine characteristics and gearbox seem to be well-matched, whereas your green band is narrow because of your late and humpy torque curve. It is of interest both from the point of your engine and gearbox, but also that the Dyno and Visualiser combined show it so well - if it is showing what I think it is, but not if it isn't the case by feel. Your actual numbers you posted last night is something I’ll have to look at later; I don’t want to get bogged down with that at the moment. (I did notice we have the same top speed though ).
Pxguru: My old horizontal table had revs and gears as the axes, showing speed; I like the vertical speed against gear axes, showing revs, but I’ll look at it with revs against gear showing speed - I like the vertical axis being increasing speed; it's what caught my eye; you can see speed rising (going up the table) and gears changing (going to the right of the table). - I saw this change as an improvement on my old one. A vertical scale of 4000-9000 in 100 increments would be 50 cells; I’d already thought that a greater precision than 2MPH would be better, but 100rpm increments might become unwieldy – again perfectly do-able, but sounds a bit smelly to me. “It is fairly safe to assume that the fastest speed would be at the top of the power curve; the redline would start after that”: In 3rd my fastest speed is 101kph, my peak power is 7760rpm; they are about 1000rpm different, and those are my upper limit for power, and my redline (the approx 1000rpm between max speed and max revs); I’ve used my peak torque as my lower limit for power to give the green (power) range. “The power torque curve would be as good as the same rpm in each gear” I can’t make that into anything my brain will follow at the moment; maybe I’ll try and read it again after I’ve had the sun on my back……If you’re saying it ISN’T going to be the same in each gear, then the thing loses it’s value; it’s just back to feel, especially if we’re applying different engine characteristics to each gear, which was the very first criticism you raised of my first draft a few days ago. Sounds like you’re saying ‘kick’ is by feel for each scooter/rider (weight?) combination too, again it’s a tweakable variable, which can be played with on the Visualiser. With mine I’m not really using that range (kick to power), except for 1st when doing something like a 0-60 because I’m always going up through the gears and staying in the green (power) band - by feel; but which is shown very closely on the table when I compare my gear changes with those shown there). A point I tried to make last night, is that it appears vespasco is using the range above and below that band (or riding at a very narrow rev range in each gear to stay close to it. I can do you a table, no problem, or I might just send you each a blank one where you can fill in your own gears, tyres and engine characteristics; this is why I was trying to get the principles of the table sorted out before splitting it several ways into each of our engines, and why I used vespasco’s comparison with mine to illustrate the need to do that.
My intention was to get as much standard-for-everything stuff agreed before splitting it up. I did vespasco’s spreadsheet on Friday night, but I’m still tweaking the original, so his is already out of date to my tweaks; I don’t really want to make copies more until the original is as good as we can get it. Or maybe we each play with a blank and see if we can get a better agreement that way? (pxguru you can do 100 cells of range and make it horizontal again!?)
That ain’t a perfect reply, but I’ve been sitting here an hour and I’m wasting sunshine………………….. (.........and a flat full of dissected engine for when I get home - after I've put cream on my burning skin!)
i'm not much closer to sussing this out but wanted to add...
on my pinasco, i can ride in 4th gear at below 3000rpm and pull nicely all the way to say 6200rpm...there is no real kick or power band that you can feel....it's just pull pull pull, so it either starts so early that i don't notice it or there isn't one! it just pulls.... although i still believe its real 'power band' is up to/no more than 5000rpm.
whereas on my Malossi, there is clearly a power band that kicks in...at around 5000rpm - ish and it would be very easy to see on a graph...and it's very clear on the Arse-O-meter