Dox
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 21
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Post by Dox on Apr 21, 2015 15:25:45 GMT
Seems like the guy is talking sh*t, how can you get documetation about wheels and forks? Send him a recorded letter with pictures of the wheels and forks and explain to him what the prefix numbers mean on the engine, tell him to look it up on scooter help, engine has nothing to do with it anyway, tell him i said he's an @rsehole. Agree with you on this valid MOT negates the need for documents on wheels,forks etc.The Authentication letter should cover frame and engine and is all the documentation they need for registration other than Insurance and proof of name and address
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Post by henri on Apr 21, 2015 16:24:31 GMT
ring em up an be polite/nice , explain the authentication letter covers the whole frame/engine/running gear as does the mot certificate , they might want a inspection to see its not altered or a letter from local piaggio dealer sayin its right ,my last reg took 2 weeks like dox's mates , an last time i needed a dealer letter it cost me a tenner , H
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Post by moomoo on Apr 21, 2015 19:03:58 GMT
My bike isn't taxed or MOTd or insured yet.....in fact it's quite a way off being finished yet. I wanted to get the log book and registration sorted while the restoration continued. I might not tax and insure and MOT it while next year now. Your friend sounds very lucky to have completed in such a short space of time. It took me nearly six weeks just to get my letter from Pete Davies although I think one had been lost in the post and then I paid for another because the wrong model was put on the letter that came. It's been a nightmare and an expensive one restoring this bike and I still feel miles away from the finish line. I always seem to drop on!
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Post by doulsy on Apr 21, 2015 19:30:12 GMT
My bike isn't taxed or MOTd or insured yet.....in fact it's quite a way off being finished yet. I wanted to get the log book and registration sorted while the restoration continued. I might not tax and insure and MOT it while next year now. Your friend sounds very lucky to have completed in such a short space of time. It took me nearly six weeks just to get my letter from Pete Davies although I think one had been lost in the post and then I paid for another because the wrong model was put on the letter that came. It's been a nightmare and an expensive one restoring this bike and I still feel miles away from the finish line. I always seem to drop on! Get back on the phone and explain the way Henri says, if they want an mot just get stuck in and give them one. They sent me a form and it asked for fork serials and other stupid stuff,i just put a line through the stupid questions, tell him vespa forks and wheels dont have serials so there is no way of getting any letters about them as modern day vespas still use the same wheels and forks.
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Post by doulsy on Apr 21, 2015 19:40:22 GMT
I dont think you will need an mot, mot is only required for road use, send them loads of pictures of the scooter when you bought it and some restoration photo's in reality all you are wanting is a registration document that matches your frame, have they sent you a rebuild letter?
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Post by moomoo on Apr 21, 2015 20:34:55 GMT
Hi doulsy Yes they sent me the rebuild form and ive filled it in. I also sent the original log book with the original engine numbers on. Theyre the only engine numbers the bike has had since it was registered. It was me who told them that the frame numbers didnt match. I told them the engine numbers were the same as the log book and I sent them photos of the engine numbers with the rebuild form I cant make things any clearer.. To be truthful I think theyre just pen pushers trying to justify their jobs. They talk all nice and polite but I dont think theyre sincere. I'm really fed up now. Ive sent an email to Pete Davies to see if he can help me out again but Ive had no reply. It's just a waiting game now for me. What f***s me off more than anything is that they never asked for all this information at the outset. Its as though they ask you for thing that takes six weeks to come then when theyve got that they ask for something else that'll probably take just as long and so on and so on. I wonder if theres anywhere to complain at DVLA I'm really not happy at the way Im being treated.
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Post by doulsy on Apr 21, 2015 20:55:31 GMT
phone them again an explain it again, the person you are dealing with, get they're dvla email address, tell them the 2cnd class post they use is taking too long, make a point of how long you have waited for the log book, explain how you have done everything by the book ect and that you have provided the dating letter and done everything else they have asked, try to be sincere and don't get angry, tell them you have spent a few thousand pounds on the project, tell them you have researched the serial numbers on scooterhelp and they all come back as a mk1, ask if the frame number is on the dvla system and ask for the reg/documents for that frame.
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Post by ianmartin40 on Apr 21, 2015 21:53:06 GMT
Hi Moomoo It is possible your frame number has never been registered in the UK many years ago I bought a scooter and did not check frame number matched the log book. it turned out to be an import, the original scooter was rotten. An import was bought and the reg plate simply swopped over onto the newer scoot to save paperwork and hastle. This was before frame numbers were checked with DVLA at MOT time I can even remember guys who had one scoot which was MOT`d taxed and insured, then they just moved the reg plate to whatever they wanted to ride that week or whatever was running. If it has not been registered in the UK before You need to insure it on frame number, MOT it on frame number then apply for tax and log book, at which point DVLA ask for it to be inspected at a VOSA centre. It is not a big deal, they are just checking you are not altering a 150 super to be a GS to increase its value. Like Doulsy says, you want a conversation and the person dealing with your case to give you their details to allow you to contact them direct.
keep the blood pressure down and chill, especially if you do not need it for the summer.
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Post by henri on Apr 22, 2015 7:31:58 GMT
as above ,but they rarely ask for a inspection , an in former "bad-boy" days swapping plates was a common task chez henri , purely for emergencys not ringing practices , have a friend at moment running his 68 primmy on a 83 pk reg plate , if your frame numbers dont come up on dvla an you have to register it anew i reccomend carrol nash for the insurance ,there use to the practice an dont charge for changing from numbers to reg on policy or cancel policy if dvla dont give a reg within 28 days like other companys . H
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Post by bryno on Apr 22, 2015 16:01:14 GMT
Did the certificate not have the engine number on it as well as frame?
If it did that should be enough, if it was not on it, that is why they are asking more.
This check is to authenticate that there are enough parts from the original vehicle to give it the age related plate, in the case of a scooter a frame and engine are usually enough (often just the frame will do).
I know it's a faff, but you will get the age related plate in the end as you do have a genuine 1980 P2 and I presume a 1980 engine in it!
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Post by moomoo on Apr 22, 2015 21:03:23 GMT
Hi bryno The engine casings are about the only original parts that were registered in 1976, that's when the bike was registered and it still has the same engine numbers. For all intents and purposes it's a 125cc engine.That's how the engine was first registered so that's what I'm keeping it registered as. When I asked for a date authentication letter I was asked only about the frame numbers both from DVLA and Pete Davies.No one asked me for the engine numbers or I would have provided them too at the same time. I have been told I need authentication for the engine, forks,suspension,gearbox and wheels and then when Ive done this I will get a new VIN number which must be stamped onto the frame by a VOSA registered garage. I kid you not!!! Here is the email from DVLA today...... Stephen Ivey <Stephen.Ivey@dvla.gsi.gov.uk> 3:58 PM (6 hours ago) to me Thank you for your telephone call. As discussed, we can only arrange a new age related mark once a club has provided dating evidence for all the major components (engine, frame, forks, wheels) I have enclosed a copy of the letter for your information. Many thanks Eng logo with border Your reference: Phone: Fax: Textphone: Web Site: 01792 783518 01792 782378 0300 123 1279 www.gov.uk Mr M Our Ref: 5627? Kits and Rebuilds D4 Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency Swansea SA99 1ZZ Dear Mr ? Vehicle Registration Number: 89R Thank you for your application to register your rebuilt vehicle (Vespa Douglas). As your vehicle has undergone a change of chassis, further information is needed We will need an appropriate vehicle owners club to inspect the vehicle. They will need to confirm the authenticity, and date of the components. (Engine, frame, forks, wheels, gearbox) I have enclosed a pre paid envelope for your reply. Yours sincerely Stephen Ivey Central Casework Group Keep up to date with all the latest news from DVLA at............ He said I must then have the frame stamped and then I must MOT and tax the bike for the registration to be complete. He said the rules ahd be tightened significantly and he needed all this information so he could tick all the boxes....his words exactly!
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Dox
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 21
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Post by Dox on Apr 23, 2015 7:30:29 GMT
I would imagine that Pete Davies must have come across this situation before and so would have some advice for you so might be worth while to give him a call
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Post by moomoo on Apr 23, 2015 7:42:52 GMT
Hi Dox, Ive been back in touch with Pete Davies and sent him the letter from the DVLA. Pete says he will deal with it over the weekend. At least someone seems to be on my side. Sorry if I sound grumpy it's just that it always seems to happen to me. Some lads have had theirs sorted in weeks without all the hoops I'm having to jump through....moan moan moan moan!!!! lol!
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Post by henri on Apr 23, 2015 9:06:22 GMT
wow , there making you jump the whole "grand national" course , well its giving me some hints/tips on what i need to do to get my unumbered smallframe registered legally , sorry to profit from your misery , very unethical on my behalf , more a "hint of silver than a lining in a dark cloud" sort of thing ,but little comfort for you. at least youve got through to somebody at dvla who seems to be talkin the truth an has outlined a path for you to follow to get a happy ending . dont despair , the ways of the "bean-counters" are a mystery to mere mortals like you n me ,but when all boxes are ticked a reg plate/v5c all present n correct will be yours . an no officious prat can take it away coz of a "wrong" number then . H
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Post by moomoo on Apr 23, 2015 17:02:10 GMT
Thanks H for your kind words as always.And worry ye not I'm gonna chill out and relax and whatever happens happens and whatever doesn't doesn't. I've given up hope of this years grand ceremony...I can wait while next year, I'm only 96!
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Post by bryno on Apr 23, 2015 19:24:40 GMT
Ok, the problem here goes back to the fact that your frame number does not match the docs, so they now think the frame has been changed and you are looking to retain the original reg number as per your v5.
If you had ignored the original reg and effectively just applied to register an unregistered scooter that would have been easier, but you'do not have known that at the time.
I understand why they are making you jump through these hoops, but it's a bit of a mare for you.
If it were me I would be tempted to call them and say clearly the v5 you have does not relate to the scooter you are trying to register which is making this very complicated, so can you just apply for a new reg on the basis that the scooter is not currently registered on the DVLA system and the scooter for which you have the v5 is a different vehicle and has probably been scrapped and you will surrender this v5.
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Post by doulsy on Apr 23, 2015 20:13:25 GMT
Ok, the problem here goes back to the fact that your frame number does not match the docs, so they now think the frame has been changed and you are looking to retain the original reg number as per your v5. If you had ignored the original reg and effectively just applied to register an unregistered scooter that would have been easier, but you'do not have known that at the time. I understand why they are making you jump through these hoops, but it's a bit of a mare for you. If it were me I would be tempted to call them and say clearly the v5 you have does not relate to the scooter you are trying to register which is making this very complicated, so can you just apply for a new reg on the basis that the scooter is not currently registered on the DVLA system and the scooter for which you have the v5 is a different vehicle and has probably been scrapped and you will surrender this v5. doubt they would give him an age related plate though, i waited 8 month for my documents because the frame did not match the reg but the dvla had records of my frame, Moomoo, at least its good that your on a one to one basis now, did you ask if they had any records of the frame or engine? hope the guy that does the letters sorts you out, send all your mail recorded.
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Post by moomoo on Apr 23, 2015 20:14:25 GMT
Hi bryno,
I'm not even trying to keep the original reg as much as I would have liked to. It would have made quite a selling point had I wished to sell the bike on. I gave up any hope of keeping that after the first phone call to DVLA. That phone call seems ages ago now.
I don't know if anyone else has had to have their frame stamped again at a garage though, do you?
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Post by bryno on Apr 23, 2015 21:05:06 GMT
If you had reframed the scooter your v5 belongs to, that's why they are asking you to get it re stamped that is what the DVLA are assuming based on what you sent them, I get that, but if you were applying for 'first' registration of the scooter then you would simply be given a new age related plate. As said it is the issue of the mismatch with v5 and the correct identity of the bike which has made this such a muddle.
I really don't see why you would not get a new age related plate on that basis, I would be inclined to call them and just say it's become clear that the v5 obviously does not relate to your scooter and on that basis can you simply apply for a new reg on a new v55 form using the dating evidence you have..
If your frame number is already on the system you would get back its original number, if not, you will get an alternative but correct for age number.
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Post by moomoo on Apr 23, 2015 21:18:40 GMT
The chap sorting out my application at the DVLA says that the youngest part on the bike determines what age related plate I get. If I had wheels on my bike from a 1990 bike for example and all the rest of the bike was from 1979 I would still get a 1990 age relate plate because the wheels are the youngest item on the bike.....that's why they want a scooter club to verify the components of the bike.
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Post by bryno on Apr 24, 2015 11:41:24 GMT
But that's not really what you are attempting to do, those rules apply to 'Reconstructed classic vehicles' category 10 Your application should be under 'old vehicles' category 9, essentially registering an old bike that is complete but just not on the DVLA system www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/reconstructed-classic-vehiclesIf you progress with the application under 10, I dont think you have much hope of ending up with the correct 1980 reg if they are going to ask you for evidence on all key items unless you can get someone to confirm they are all 1980 originals I have been through this process many times and never had an issue following the 'V55 new application' process, never any question about how much of the bike is still the original, they have always ended up on the correct plate for the frame number
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Post by bryno on Apr 24, 2015 11:42:59 GMT
That said, if it just needs someone from a scooter club to inspect and write a letter, I'm sure someone local can do that, I would do it if you were in my area...
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Post by doulsy on Apr 28, 2015 19:59:56 GMT
any news yet? what did your man who wrote the letter say?
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Post by henri on Apr 29, 2015 7:31:53 GMT
interesting link bryno, gives me a clue to get my no-numbers cut down back on the road without essentially ringing it ,would rather jump thru the hoops than buy a potentially dodgy v5c , H
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Post by moomoo on Apr 29, 2015 18:59:57 GMT
any news yet? what did your man who wrote the letter say? No news yet doulsy it was about six weeks last time.......I cant be bothered to chase it up.
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Post by doulsy on Apr 29, 2015 20:27:19 GMT
any news yet? what did your man who wrote the letter say? No news yet doulsy it was about six weeks last time.......I cant be bothered to chase it up. good luck anyway, think im gonna get grief from them for my engine change, phoned them yesterday and they tried to say they never received my log book then back tracked when i said i sent it recorded.
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Post by moomoo on Apr 29, 2015 21:02:11 GMT
To be truthful I think theyre there to make as much money as possible and cause as much misery at the same time. My patience is wearing extremely thin with them.
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Post by Vespresso on May 21, 2015 6:18:45 GMT
I had exactly the same problem, well almost, had the scoot 6 years, restored it and changed the color, was registered as a 125 so at the same time notified DVLA of the correct engine size (200), and got all the same letters and docs etc as you, unfortunately I gave them the DGM number not the frame number as it was nearly all worn away and I didn't see it. After months of back and forth, I have given up (another project on the go) but when I get round to it, I'm just gonna go with the Q Plate, was gutted at first but realised there are more important things in life to worry about/get upset about, I know mine is a genuine 1978 P200E, so don't really care if it's on a T or Q.
Hope you have better luck, let us know how you get on!
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Post by moomoo on May 31, 2015 14:47:05 GMT
Hi Vespresso,
I got my re-written letter back from the BLA and I've sent it to DVLA via email attachment about a week ago but I haven't had a reply yet. The chap who's dealing with it may be on holiday or something or sick leave, they don't let you know. I'm going to ring them tomorrow to see if they can at least acknowledge the information Ive sent to them. If I'm being honest, I have little time for them. I've given up hope of having the bike on the road for this season, the red red tape is overwhelming. The hoops Ive been asked to jump through are getting higher and smaller every time I contact them, to me they're jobsworths. When I've finished this latest hoop jumping they've told me I must fill in some other forms and then they'll consider giving me a new VIN number and registration, when I've paid of course, and then I must have the new VIN number stamped on the frame of the bike by a VOSA garage. But before any of that they've got to pore over the evidence that I've sent in which will probably take weeks if not months. What a load of ****!
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Post by moomoo on Jun 9, 2015 16:15:05 GMT
Hi all.....again,
I've finally got my letter and V55 form from DVLA with my new VIN number. I have to have this number stamped on the frame and then th bike has to be MOT'd. I don't have a new registration number yet though, I'm assuming I'll get it when the bike is MOT'd?
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