indicaters ,anybody seen this 1 before ,

[henri]

picked up a px125 today to pre-mot for a friend , he'd said no indicaters/speedo not workin/an leccy start stopped.
new battery 9 months ago so thought i'd check reg box for chargin an the connection between reg n relay for indies, but noticed on way home warning lamp still came on but not flashing .
so my question is do ya reckon my probs still down at reg/relay end or has anybody ever had a weird switch fault like this , or maybe reg box is failing n only stickin enough to drive the warning lamp but not light indies or trigger relay, 
was pourin down when i got it ,so just stuck it in shed n will look tommorrow ,scoot lives outside,is rusty n neglected an was soaked , so earths will be checked .
any clues , guesses welcome , an if sussed ya welcome to tuck it on the end of ya guide sbwnic , which ive just re-read aswell as the diagram in haynes which shows warning feed comes through reg n relay an seems to be in parallel with front indicaters ,if my eyes are reading the squiggly lines right, on a diag for px's pre euro2 models ,this scoot is a euro but the diag's harder/imposs to read without a magnifying glass ,so am hoping there same, unless somebodys knows different ,its just the indicater circuit i mean, thanks H  

[vespasco]

Im only guessin really henri but the first thing id check is the reg/rec
I had a look at the haynes diagram for 200, cant be far off for the 125. The earth is another thing that stands out to me that id want to check.
I only have lots of variations of wiring diagrams of the T5 and the PX200GS (T5/200)
But they are half the size of the haynes so probably aint much use to you.
Good luck with ya multimeter

[sbwnik]

ME/MY speedo?

[henri]

my thoughts were same as vespaco , but nic ya reckon it might be a fault up on the speedo,prob the crap ribbon wiring eh, headset top was coming off to check speedo cable anyway , H

[sbwnik]

Nov 18, 2014 8:21:12 GMT henri said:

my thoughts were same as vespaco , but nic ya reckon it might be a fault up on the speedo,prob the crap ribbon wiring eh, headset top was coming off to check speedo cable anyway , H

Yes,check the pcb for rust and breaks.

[henri]

no rust there or breaks ,but loads of white mould n spider nests an the biggest angriest false black widow ive ever seen , thought it was goin to snatch the screwdriver out me hand n do me a mischeif .
update , the reg box is stickin out only 12volts ac no matter what revs ,an 0 volts dc, 1 prob ,
the 12v ac is gettin to switch an to front bulbs but not triggering relay ,an with speedo disconnected n left panel off i get 1 rear indicater shining but not flashing .
nxt step sling on a spare 3 pin reg n see if indies work an go buy a new 5 pin .
as a aside , i seem to remember the starter safety interlock relay should live under the horncast ,this scoot hasnt got 1 , just flasher relay n starter motor relay , an a few unused wires behind horncast ,a black earth ,twin grey ,an 2 pinks joined together ,so am guessing interlock has been done away with .
an then a fun day cleaning connections an earths , whoopee , H

[sbwnik]

Yes, that's the interlock, and change the reg to see what happens

[henri]

tried a 3 pin no-name reg , same dealio, tried a local piaggio dealers oem quality ,piaggio 5 pin ,no change ,
question , i thought the piaggio genuine was ducatti , this is named korbusan an came in a piaggio bag ,an the b+ an c terminals are switched in placing ,so either piaggio are using these on the new re-released px's , or local dealers saving the bags n re-sealing em with patterns in .i wouldnt put it past him.
anyways , cleared the white mould of speedo pcb,was old vaseline i think,to stop corrosion , an found 2 breaks ,on the lights warning lamp n high beam 1 , so will have to put jumper wires in there .
had a idea maybe low-output from stator , but disconnected the blues kicking out 18-20 Vac at tickover rising to 35-40 when revved , soon as reg box re-connected steady 12Vac with dips on needle when lights turned on or dip/high switch.then steady 12volts no matter what revs ,
so got a indie relay on order an am hoping its some weird relay fault as i'm dreading going through it all wire by wire n earths/connections 1 by 1 . H

[vespasco]

I think a lot of 'genuine piaggio' is actually lml! Thats why some dealers say its piaggio?! Only guessin tho'.
Not sure who makes what nowadays.

Its probably nothing but unregulated 18v at tickover and 35-40v revving sounds high to me?
18v at 5000rpm maybe yeh?

And 12v regulated actually seems a little low!? Was that the same for each reg? Probably ok, im just looking at my notes for mine.
And cracks in the ribbon too! Well spotted. I thought you meant the speedo werent working, but its the electrics. Good luck!!
Keep at it h.. Looks like youre ticking all the suspect things off the list...hope its an easy one

[henri]

the speedo not working is a new cable fitted with overlong outer , an + cracks in ribbon are under where main beam n lights warning light bulbs twist into board ,why i didnt spot em on first inspection .
an i thought same on voltages ,was going to pull flywheel an check/swap stater but internal thread on fly is damaged n has chewed up my puller, both ends, so any tips on removing a well-on fly without a puller appreciated , apart from engine out n suspended over bench by rope under fly n heat an sharp tap on crank end i'm stumped , its worked before on a vbb lump that kept spitting the circlip in my face.
first i'm hoping a new relay magically cures all my ills ,as i havent the heart to go through the wiring 1 wire/connection/earth at a time ,well not this week anyway . H

[vespasco]

What worked for me when i had dodgy threads in the flywheel was to;

A) ) use ptfe tape around the extractors threads
b) make sure to remove the serated washer too! So as to get a full bite on as much thread as possible.
B) make doubly sure that the flywheel extractor screws in straight - without exception!!
C) leave it and hope a new relay sorts everything
D) if your extractor threads are also knackered, chuck it away so you dont ruin any other flywheels!!

[henri]

A ,good tip
B1 there wasnt any washer , previous servicing? by local piaggio dealer ,
b2 i always do ,but this one was a pig n wouldnt screw in by hand more than 1/4 turn , damaged already (see b1)
C def my fave
D its already in the scrap/might be sum use 1 day pile , tho i did have to retrieve it from neighbours garden where it landed first ,
it all have to wait as despite payin for 24 hour delivery the posties been n gone an only brought a pk stator for my v100,making an fitting a loom for which has got most of my attention this week,thats why i havent the patience or heart for a px's indicaters ,that an its turned wicked cold this week, (an v100 is in the front room=warm/dry/coffea on tap/an tunes ,only downside its the missus's room so no-smoking), will order a new puller over weekend ,maybe try a buzzeti 1 ,H

[henri]

quick update ,
replaced starter relay =starts on the button now ,
cleaned up reg box earth n engine earths an reg box connecters =now makin proper voltages on ac n dc circuits ,
new relay turned up an its a pattern 1 ,not what was ordered ,marked in numbers not coloured dots, messaged em to be sure an connected it as advised an as the european din codes suggested ,just made a buzzing noise ,
whilst waiting on proper relay stripped old 1 an found corroded contacts ,now i can get flashing indicators(5 times) but as soon as relays placed back in holder connections fail,so replaced them,then moving the battery earth wire to connect they failed agin, got em workin agin only for putting panel back on failed em again.alternating from front to back this is ,got sick of it an got on with re-wiring speedo ,
ive had to run jumper wires to main beam an indie warning lamps as ribbon under bulb holders is gone, main beam is fine but indie 1 is on all the time an flashes when indies are used ,i'm guessing another circuit in the ribbon is dead/broke an leaking to earth via the indicater circuit .
tho i couldnt get a resistance from diode either way round its connected to my meter ,just no circuit , does anybody know why its there or what it does , H

[vespasco]

Sounds like youve got your work cut out h..
I find it difficult to explain wiring problems and possible solutions without having the scoot in front of me. Plus I've never been the greatest at using diodes and relays.
I usually end up doing things the long way, with a multimeter and a long piece of wire... something i know you dont really want to have to do.
A 'pondering stick' can give you the patience you need.
But, ill try to help, hope i dont hinder...
Youre asking about the diode right? Do the px models come fitted with diodes from the factory? (Honestly, i dont know..im without my notes and manuals at the mo')! If so, the diodes allow current to go one way..is that correct? If no current either way the diode must be fried?! But im sure you already know that and im sure you know better than i do
If no diode from factory then who knows who has done what to it previously? And for what reason?
Hopefully nik may chime in, hes the wiring wizard with the electronic experience.

I wish i could help you H

[sbwnik]

What diode? Did I miss something?

Don't remember ever seeing one on mine....

[henri]

the diode is soldered to the printed ribbon wiring on back of speedo, an yes vespaco a diode is a one way shunt/gate type of thing, its in parralel to the fuel gauge it seems ,i'm guessing its function is as a half-wave rectifier so the gauge runs on regulated dc ,like all other gauges for temp/fuel/oil pressure ive come across.the lectronics i was taught is a long time ago an very fuzzy,so not sure ,
anyways, had a epithany/light-bulb moment bout 2 0clock this morn,an got up an found a magnifying glass an read the euro model type 2003-4 wiring diagram ,seems where ive gone wrong on the idiot light for indies is wiring it like the speedo light nxt door as a switched live ,seems the idiot lights are switched earths ,fed by the green wire in common , except for the speedo illumination bulb which is switched live , piaggio/vespas eh always got to be different ,
stuck in home this morn waitin on a new sofa to be delivered (i'd rather of bought another scoot/bike/tools) but itchin to nip to garage n get this sorted ,
i yes i know i should of read the diagram a week ago ,but its teeny tiny squiggle wires that make my eyes/brain hurt n drip out my nose ,damm indicaters ,whats wrong with hand signals ,you dont forget to cancel them ,an i usually wave at my mot-er anyway ,with a selection of fingers n gestures an he always gets the message , H

[henri]

well its fixed n mot ready , but my mid-night brainwave was wrong bout the switched earths ,maybe ,
to be honest i'm not sure what the fault was or what i did that fixed it ,but fixed it is ,so early beer n bath for this boy, whoopee ,
saves lookin at the xmas pressie from inlaws me n missus didnt want ,sofa looks like it belongs in a old-folks home ,an its cream so i'm not allowed near it ever , bet it aint comfy anyway, H

[vespasco]

so now you have an old sofa to put in your shed to sit on while you enjoy a rewarding beer.
if you need the extra room you can always 'store' your motovespa smallie at mine...like, on a permenant basis
but i bet youre glad that's that sorted!
the gods are on your side!

[henri]

only enuff room for a beer crate stool in shed ,old sofa was used to "de-stress" whilst waiting on new one , hammer n crowbar an ready for tip now ,an as for god,reckon he hates me but thats ok as i just hate him right back.
reckon problem was a combination of stuff , bad earths on rear panels,rotten speedo ribbon wiring,an a fried reg box that had fried the other relays for company .an a mechanic lookin for a short cut coz his heart wasnt into the job, bad henri, H