vespasian
High Number
greater manchester
Posts: 235
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Post by vespasian on Jul 4, 2014 13:01:03 GMT
hi,,any help appreciated here,,i rebuilt my px late last year,new seals bearing etc,since then ive done around 400 miles on it,however ive noticed that the gearbox oil is dropping quite quickly,with no sign of external leakage,cant smell any petrol in it,and there is good compression in the bike,there is blue smoke on first start up for a bit,that clears,which i guess is normal,and the plug is nice and brown,off course crank seal leakage is my worry,but hoping this is not the case,anyone shed some light on it?
thanks
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gear oil
Jul 4, 2014 15:37:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by vespasco on Jul 4, 2014 15:37:46 GMT
After approx 400 miles youd need to change your engine oil anyway, if you havent already. So change your oil. You wont get quite so much out as goes in so dont be too alarmed. Other things are to check for any leaks especially between the crankcase halves, clutch (behind rear wheel) gear selector box etc Youd no doubt have an oily plug and lots of white smoke if you think its burning gearbox oil.
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Post by bryno on Jul 4, 2014 16:01:56 GMT
In my experience oil seal fail is more liklely to push fuel into the oil rather than vice versa, though it can happen the other way.
If you have a pretty rapid loss of gear oil i'd have thought it would smoke like a steam engine, dirty black plug, rough running and an oily exhaust given that gear oil doesn't burn well..
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vespasian
High Number
greater manchester
Posts: 235
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Post by vespasian on Jul 4, 2014 17:58:27 GMT
no mate,doesnt smoke much at all to be honest,and when it does its blue smoke,probably from condensed oil in exhaust,as regard the running,it runs pretty well,,,thanks for the comments so far,ill deffo check the crankcase halves at some point,
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Post by sbwnik on Jul 4, 2014 19:45:40 GMT
If it's sucking oil through, then the seal is completely blown and you will know about it - the engine will be smoking like a laboratory beagle and it'll refuse to pull without spluttering.
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Post by pxguru on Jul 5, 2014 6:18:29 GMT
Need a bit more info. How many times you filled the gearbox oil in 400 miles? What make/colour of main oil seal did you fit? What sealer do you use to bond the seal in the casing?
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Post by henri on Jul 5, 2014 8:35:45 GMT
an also how recent had the scoot been run before you pulled the level plug to check ,as it can take a while for all the oil to drain back down into the "sump" .an have ya considered you might not of got enuff in to start with ,a slight misfire with the syringe used to fill up can give the appearance of a full box . an pxguru,do you always use a sealant on outside of your seals to bond em , an what type ,i usually only use it if cases are old/worn/damaged ,do you reccomend its use always then. h
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vespasian
High Number
greater manchester
Posts: 235
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Post by vespasian on Jul 5, 2014 16:39:20 GMT
Need a bit more info. How many times you filled the gearbox oil in 400 miles? What make/colour of main oil seal did you fit? What sealer do you use to bond the seal in the casing? sealer none [how many times you fill gearbox in 400 miles i cant rember mate sorry,ive only just started running it again since being stood for 7 months,oil seal brown metal one
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vespasian
High Number
greater manchester
Posts: 235
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Post by vespasian on Jul 5, 2014 16:41:46 GMT
an also how recent had the scoot been run before you pulled the level plug to check ,as it can take a while for all the oil to drain back down into the "sump" .an have ya considered you might not of got enuff in to start with ,a slight misfire with the syringe used to fill up can give the appearance of a full box . an pxguru,do you always use a sealant on outside of your seals to bond em , an what type ,i usually only use it if cases are old/worn/damaged ,do you reccomend its use always then. h cases not that old mate,no sealant,but intrestingly,ive only just starting using again fro 7 months stood,and checked oil first day of running?
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Post by pxguru on Jul 5, 2014 17:30:09 GMT
Metal brown seal is my one of choice. The best for long life at high rpm. They do have to be fitted with bonding liquid tho. Henri, I use Loctite 603 but there are a few others that will do just as well I suspect you are losing some oil rould the back of the seal. You may be able to take it apart and pop it out without damage but better to get a new seal and bond in properly. The good news is that if its passing oil you are losing power
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Post by henri on Jul 6, 2014 7:41:42 GMT
the brown metal seals are i think "vitol" where others are niton. might have the last n an l wrong way round there, an on engines niton is working at the top of its temp range ,whereas vitol is right in the middle .didnt know they had to be bonded in tho , H
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Post by pxguru on Jul 6, 2014 11:26:13 GMT
"Have to be bonded in" is just opinion and experience Without bonding in there is a risk of leaking or falling out. Both of which don't happen to mine or others scooters anymore. I think when they fit the metal seals from new they are put in with a press or some tool. They never seem so tight after the original seal is changed.
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vespasian
High Number
greater manchester
Posts: 235
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Post by vespasian on Jul 6, 2014 12:21:24 GMT
"Have to be bonded in" is just opinion and experience Without bonding in there is a risk of leaking or falling out. Both of which don't happen to mine or others scooters anymore. I think when they fit the metal seals from new they are put in with a press or some tool. They never seem so tight after the original seal is changed. i know when i put it in ,it was a b*st**d to get in,really tightt..needed case heating and seal put in fridge for a few hours to get in,,if it is slightly leaking i will wait for it to go completely,,cant be arsed splitting cases again right :)now thanks for the input guys
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