PX150EFL Engine Rebuild - Slow and Steady Wins the Race?....

[sime66]

I’ve been quiet for a couple of days, keeping my head down, but making a bit of progress, and I’m ready to do the clutch. Before I do that, I’m thinking about how I can be sure that the gearbox and crank are fully on the bearings and in correct alignment with each other and the casings; I don’t want to just keep tapping the shaft against the bearing to be sure, and I'm pretty sure they're fully on, but I’m wondering if there’s anything in particular to look for or to measure. It is all running smoothly and the gears are meshing.
I’ve put a couple of photos below, and as far as I can tell these look the same as the photos I took before removal. The two halves fit together nicely and the crank turns smoothly with them together.
I’m probably just being overcautious, but at this point the clearances must be pretty crucial. I hope I'm on the right lines? The clutch is the last job before putting the casings back together and starting on the outside bits……….

















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[henri]

nice an shiny ,lurvelly , nice job.
if ya crank's spinning with no tight-spots ,binding ,backlash .then your bearings are in right place ,with right spacing on crank they have to sit about right in cases .the conrod ideally should be central in crank mouth,there are gauges for sale to do this ,or a steel rule an good eyes ,or a caliper/vernier .the side to side tolerances arent that tight here an there's a fairbit of leeway.unless its a really tuned/race engine ive done it by eye/ruler/ an feel .unless grossly wrong its a balance/vibration thing to get it dead center in high revving engines .
slap them casings together ,do clutch remembering ends of circlip tucked in, airbox,clutch cover ,barrel n piston an ya ready to put back in .sounds a lot but isnt when ya say it fast,but your on the last downhill bit ,scootin again soon eh, H

[sime66]

Cheers Henri,
Encouraging comments.
Had a quick hour at it this evening; cases went together nicely. Just had a closer look at the crank position; I think both these images show that the crank could go a Nat’s towards flywheel, but it is spinning freely as it is; do I risk giving it a little tap back the other way, or would that risk messing up my seals? Given what you said about tolerances not being too tight, and my old banger hardly being highly-tuned, I’m inclined to leave well alone unless anyone advises otherwise. – Just double-checking before moving on.
Clutch first thing tomorrow (maybe more dremelling on cover, so no rushing there), and after that none of the other stuff really scares me.





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[sbwnik]

There is supposed to be a 1mm gap between crank and casing on the clutch side, I've never measured it and always do it by eye. They don't want to be butting up though, and looking at your photos, I'd agree it could do with tapping back gently.

[sime66]

Had a nightmare last night that I’d forgot that silly bit of plastic that sits on the primary, so wasted an hour finding and fitting it. I don’t even know what it does, but had to re-split casings to put it back. (That’s why I like to go slow and thorough).

Crank tapped back over as suggested; perfick – all pleased with that, then when I tightened the clutch it went back to how it was before, so I’ve had enough of that game. Perhaps it’ll go back a bit when flywheel goes on. There is a gap both sides.
Anyway; clutch is now fitted, after lots of dremelling of cover. All is turning together and freely without any rubbing or dragging.

So next job – barrel etc………..(after bacon butty whilst watching Sausage do it first).

Might get engine back in scooter tomorrow, but not rushing engine rebuild just to achieve it.

Film of roaring engine is imminent………………….















Or is it?

[henri]

i think the "bit of plastic" you refer too is called a "oil thrower guide" ,you dont have em on earlier than p series vesps ,an ive forgotten to put 1 in once aswell ,thought sod it ,left it out an didnt have any probs from it,
an agree with swbnic from photo's that crank needed a gnats hair moving ,but reckon you'd already decided that yourself ,but so long as now youve got a gap so thers no rubbing it will be fine .an after ya butty break the barrels easy aslong as ya remember to stuff a rag into cases mouth so nothing can drop in by accident an get rings nicely butted up to the pegs ,slop a dollop of oil on bore an it will slide in like ,Naahhh not going there,too predictable . Henri

[sime66]

Hit a purple patch after refuelling myself.
All done and back together.
Just checking over it all - going through 'empty' bags and boxes to make sure.
Re-checking the torques etc............
Going through my Engine Installation checklist to make sure I've got everything I need.
Engine will definately be in first thing tomorrow.

I know for certain I have a problem with a knackered thread on my drain plug though, so it ain't over.

Anyway going along nicely.

What's the proper way to fix my plug?

[henri]

is the knackered thread in the casing or on the bolt , if bolt then a new 1 ,casing ,to do proper needs re-tapping to a larger thread .if you coat the tap in grease it should catch any swarf an keep it out of engine ,but you'd rather of done it when cases where apart .
if theres enuff thread the bolt will tighten but it weeps plumbers ptfe tape wrapped round the thread will seal it ,or a copper/fibre washer is often re-used an then they drip oil .the oil level plug an drain plug are same size n thread if memory serves ,so use the best one as the drain where it needs a better seal an 2nd best 1 for level plug an just keep an eye on oil loss/level an bolt working loose . H

[sime66]

It's the casing. I see that I should have looked at it sooner, I had a nasty feeling I’d made it worse when I drained it with the right-hump a few weeks ago, when it was full of metal, I reckon I just shoved it back in disgust and either cross-threaded it or over tightened it with added swarf.
It isn’t totally knackered, but will need attention soon. I know I should have had a better look whilst casings were apart, but was hoping it wasn’t too bad. I had a new spare one, so I just put a new drain plug and fibre washer on it this afternoon, and I’m overlooking it for now; I still want to put the engine in, and get some oil in to see if she runs, and to see how bad (if at all) any leak from the plug might be. More of a worry is vibrating out. I’ll start with a wrap of PTFE, and if it needs more attention I’ll put it on my snagging list tomorrow. If it’s all I have to worry about I’ll be quite happy really, and if there’s other problems, it will seem insignificant. I’ll probably need to tap bigger eventually then; I’ll see how bad tomorrow.
Thanks chaps, big day tomorrow.

[vespasco]

Wow! i was franticly reading your post so i could warn you about the plastic oil thrower! I didnt see it your pics!

Then i also thought the clutch will pull the crank into the correct position anyway. You should also be looking through the carb inlet to check the crank web is giving s good seal in the crankcase.

You may want to re torque you primary shaft if you think it may have moved it when mating the cases together.

At this stage you can bench check all your gears and clutch work ok. If u like of course. There should be enough oil on your plates to make them work.

Oil drainage bolt - as per henri. Try Ptfe tape.

Im feeling positive. I think youve done well for a non shed dweller.

Keep us posted

[sime66]

Chaps!!

She's Alive!!!!

I'm just uploading some film of first engine run and ride, but it's taking an age to do, so I wanted to say that we have lift off.

I've got to get some PTFE and fresh petrol when I go out later, and I need to adjust my clutch 'cos it's dragging, but other than that she's parked up over a drip tray to see how much oil is coming out.

There'll be plenty to tweak no doubt, but thanks very much indeed for all the advice and encouragement.

For me, this was a big job.


Thanks again

(Film to follow..............)

[henri]

hoo (bloody)ray ,at last ,well happy for ya ,take it easy for a bit an when its settled down ,thrash the begger to within a inch of its life ,just once ,ya know ya want too, for everybody its a big job first time ,
welcome to "shedology" ,once the oils under ya fingernails it never comes out . Henri

[sime66]

Back to life after engine rebuild:

Please try to ignore my L plates and my lard.

. I did my theory last summer, and just spent my lesson and test money fixing my scooter – again – for the third year!

. The lard is inexcusable; I’m working on it. I’ve put on 5 stone since I got the scooter.

Now I don’t have much to say about the film; she started third kick, after a month on bricks in the garden, with the engine inside in bits, lovely big white cloud, and other than a dragging clutch, nothing immediately obvious to me to be too concerned about.

New rear brake shoes and clutch caused me to stall once, but she started again immediately.

I’m going to say no more and see if anyone clever spots or hears anything worrying.

Here it is then; engine roaring as requested:


s1290.photobucket.com/user/sime6954/media/01-06-14firstTestrunafterRebuild_zpsc7ef836b.mp4.html


I’m going to clean myself and my flat up, and see what you chaps reckon……….

What's 'Shedology' without a shed?

[vespasco]

Haha! Yes! Its alive!
I can see the smile on ya face
Nice 1
Congratulations

It just needs a little tweak on the carb to get it running smoother. (Possibly timing too)?
And the clutch! Im sure you can do all of those yourself now.

One thing i did notice was your kickstart not returning very quickly. Maybe that was the noise i heard (albeit on my phobe) For one, you shouldn't really leave the kick lever down after its started. Ideally it should 'spring back'.

[sime66]

Cheers chaps,


I am mainly rather pleased with the result so far, and don’t want to dwell on the snags this evening with my lovely clean hands, but will get on with them during the week ahead:


· Carb tweaking – No worries, will do. Been trying all year, but never had it running long enough to be happy with it. Know the method; just not very good at it.

· Clutch tweaking – no worries, will do before I ride again! - she’s a bit keen on the off at the moment; just needs cable tightening I think.

· Timing – Noted, I suppose it would be sensible.

· Various rattles that might need investigating if they don’t shake them selves out, or the oil finds them before I do. There were a few, but sound much worse on mobile, rather than decent speakers – I had a look on my phone too and it did sound rattly. I pointed scooter at the hedge when I started-up in case it flew off on it’s own, or bits of metal came flying out, so a couple of rattles was a good result, unless they persist or get worse.

· The kick-start not returning sharply – I noticed this too; it was OK before, and I noticed it during rebuild after I’d fitted a new ‘o’ring and reassembled. It was stiff before the casings went back together though, so I’m hoping it will just loosen up. It moves about a bit on tick-over too, which I don’t think it did before. I'll make sure it's back up before I ride, and keep an eye on it.

· Oil drain plug leak – seems to be OK at present (nothing in drip tray after 5 hours), but keeping an eye on it. Will have to deal with it sometime for sure - nightmares about it falling out when I'm riding.


Seaside and deckchairs it is then, rather than the canal and pub option…………..


Oh, and a sound thrashing – just the once! - When I’m wearing protection.

[hully1]

HI Sime,

I have been keeping up with this rebuild right from the start but have not commented as engines scare the life out of me and my knowledge is absolutely zero, however, bodywork is a different matter. It is absolutely brilliant the job you have done as a beginner and this has inspired me to to tinker with my own engine during the winter and fit a Polini kit to it, if only i understood the idea of porting and jetting it may not seem so daunting.

Once again congratulations on the rebuild and happy scootering from now on.

Mark

[sime66]

Cheers Mark,

I don't reckon I'm out of the woods yet, with at least the few jobs I know about, and probably some unpleasant surprises to come, but I am amazed that it ever ran again. I was spurred on by the confidence of the chaps on here, rather than my own faith in doing it successfully. Even the b*ll*ckings to stop faffing about and get on with it!
That, and the fact that once it's in bits, you really can't make it much worse than a box of worthless old metal, so you might as well have a go.
I can't thank the people on here enough, for vital help with this job, and for several other jobs that I've previously tackled for the first time; the helpful, sharing attitude on here really is a credit to all involved on this forum.
Even my own mistakes and painfully slow learning process will hopefully now help others out, and maybe you can avoid some of my balls-ups.
I won't dwell on it, for fear of it coming back to bite me on the arse when something unexpected crops up, so I'm now just going to quietly put a few snags right and hopefully build my trust in the old clunker up again.......

All the best with your current troubles, and your future plans.

I've got no big plans for now – except to ride the beggar!
(The jobs seem to surface on their own, but with each one now, I'm a little more confident to have a go).

Incidentally chaps, there are no signs of any leaks this morning, but I keep replaying the film to listen for worrying noises...........................

[henri]

hi,havent listened to film so cant comment on rattles ,but didnt hear any large bangs from my shed so reckon its ok, when doing ya carb tweaking remember 2 things ,its a single cylinder 2stroke ,an youve kitted it .so your never going to get a rolls smooth tickover ,just so long as it doesnt hunt up n down the revs or die when throttles shut an isnt so rich its spitting back loads of petrol its fine .carbs dont survive repeated tinkering well,
an hopefully your kickstart loosens up when oil has seeped down the shaft to the o-ring as the spring should bring it back up smartly ,or the teeth on the pinion/ratchet will get worn out by the engine spinning over.
an shedology without a shed is still "shedology" ,like being happy its a state of mind not of being,its carried by the knowledge youve built in ya head an the skills learnt in ya hands, an its catching, an youve already infected (converted)1 from what hully1/mark posted above .happy scootering Henri

[sime66]

Scoots been sitting out the front, soaking up the evening sunshine and admiring glances from passers by, and she hasn’t even marked her spot. I’ll have to cover it up soon.

Lovin’ it though! - Deffo got the happy state of mind right now.

It won’t be till Thursday that I get a chance to tweak it and go for a proper ride, and really assess anything that might need doing, so until then the jobs a goodun. Like I said, if those jobs above are all I end up needing to sort I’ll be well-happy. Rattles aren’t too alarming, compared to the grinding/screeching and flying metal I was preparing myself for.

Happy scootering/shedding back.

Brace yourself and clear your shed Mark, these chaps will have you doing things you never dreamt of!

[hully1]

Hi Sime "doing things i never dreamt of" sounds like my wife!!!!!

you certainly have filled me with more confidence and i feel the 2 stroke clouds have somewhat lifted curing me of my phobia of f*****g things up and taking a bag of knackered bits to the local garage!!

already looking for a donor px200 engine to have a go at as my 125 is struggling to drag my ample frame around.

Mark

[sime66]

If she’s doing things she’s never dreamt of, that’s probably OK; if it’s things you’ve not dreamt of, then it might be a worry. You might have to consult Henri, Shedmaster, about rule 4.

I’m far too wet behind the ears to give advice, but if you’re thinking of getting another lump anyway, why not put a 200 in and have a play with the 125 and see how you get on with overhauling that? What’s your license situation? – I see L-plates on your avatar. I’ve done it twice now, and it takes me ¾ hour to take an engine out and 2 hours to put it back; then a bit of tweaking.

For me, getting another engine probably would have been cheaper, but I wouldn’t know for sure what I’d ended up with, and more importantly, I wouldn’t have gained the experience and confidence; and I have that now whether there are teething troubles to come or not. In fact getting someone else to do it would have been cheapest because I wouldn’t have butchered my crank and possibly bearings, but it is still all experience, and I’m not sorry I did it, even the mistakes. For me, someone else doing it is no longer an option anyway – Kev-the-Mech excepted for now, for the trickiest bits. Obviously, I am also no longer allowed to play with power tools unless supervised by a grown-up.

I strongly suspect that my ‘ample frame’ (nicely phrased – well done), combined with still riding like a teenager when I’m fat and 50, was what destroyed my clutch in the first place, so my kitted engine is coping, but the weak point is there; that, and the bacon butties. So it’s lots of lovely salad and a banded clutch as soon as funds permit.

Anyway, you’ll weigh it up and make your choices, and the chaps here will help you along. I have photos of every step of the engine removal, strip, inspection, rebuild and refit. I won’t post them all here or the Forum will probably go bang, but I’ll make an album when I’ve cleared out the detritus from my Photobucket, and post a link sometime soon.

[hully1]

well i have decided that from now on all projects will be of the 2 wheeled kind, which i am sure will please the neighbours as the sight of a half dismantled Beetle on the drive i am sure would once again raise a few eyebrows with the wanna be snobby neighbours who have great pleasure in tutting every time they walked past, may just buy one and leave it there to annoy them!!

i now have my shed which to the wifes delight has taken up the majority of the garden and yes is spot on for room for scoot and to be able for me to shoe horn myself in and tinker.

spending spree is on the cards as i feel a major project brewing again will now be casting my eye over ebay for a bargain scoot to get my teeth into once i have finished putting mine right and added a bit more colour.

[sime66]

Here's a link to a Flikr album, going through job from grim realisation that something nasty was going on with the grey oil, right through strip and rebuild, to reinstallation of engine:

www.flickr.com/photos/124362908@N02/sets/72157644998325892/

It's my first go of Flikr, so let me know if it doesn't work.

Incidentally, I had a better look at how the kick-start quadrant lifts the cog off the drive with the final section, when it's fully returned. It makes sense to me now. I still think it will be OK once the oils got around more, but would have been better if I'd followed advice and used a bit of oil instead of a load of grease - a bit of advice that I remembered afterwards! Probably got a chance to redo it, only if needed, if I have to split the casings to sort my drain hole out.

(Really must try to concentrate)