Stripping my scooter down...advice please!

[matsuba]

Hi, 

I inherited a C reg PX125E many years ago when I was 14 and the time has finally come where I'm in the position to get it on the road. It hasn't been started for about 25 years and needs a respray. I want to do as much as possible myself but need to strip it down in order to get it painted. 

Can an anyone give me any advice on the best way to approach it? What do I remove first etc? I'm in no real hurry and want to make this a bit of a project but I'm a terrible newbie to all this. Any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks
Matt 

[davy]

have you got somewhere to strip it down (garage ??)and do you want to completely strip it for respray if so the easiest place to start would be horn cast/ headstock,speedo, remove forks so you can take front bumper off,remove all indicators and side panel rubbers,seat, may not need to remove fuel tank, glove box,that should keep you going for at least an afternoon ,keep all parts safely somewhere you may want to remove engine which after removing cables and wiring is just a bolt and damper
good luck and keep everyone posted and maybe pictures
davy

[henri]

first off,get penetrating oil spray (wd40/gt85) an spray every nut n bolt ya can see ,cleaning any exposed threads with a wire brush ,then leave for 12hours an do again ,repeat as many times as poss,whilst ya stand back wash ya paint work an see how bad it is ,if theres no rust breaking through a good t-cutting or compounding can re-juvenate old paint an make it look quite good,saving ya the hassle of a all-over paint job ,any rusty bits wire brush an rust treat .
take the plug out an squirt a good dose of oil/deisel into the bore an leave to soak in ,an def give the exhaust bolts a extra wd40-ing.
after that in which order ya strip the scoot is up to you ,just get loads of take-away tupperware boxes or freezer bags an a cd marking pen to write on them for the bits ya remove,take photo's/notes as ya go so you can refer to em when re-building ,dont remove the cables/loom from frame without tying a wire/string to end of em so you can get new ones back in ,dont throw any knackered nuts/bolts/screws away as there handy to compare too when getting new ones.
how to paint is a whole book,an ya local library will prob have the haynes bodywork manual ,a good starter to the dark-art of painting,then loads of practice an remembering the finish depends 95% on the prep 4%cleanliness an only 1% on the painter .if ya not doing the paint yaself talk to the painter about how he wants the scoot prepared as thats the major time/work/cost to a paint job an cheaper done by you.
by now the wd40 will have worked or not an ya can start,get a blow torch an use heat on any stubborn bolts remembering not to damage nearby/behind components to the stuck bolt ,an that ali will melt an be destroyed by too much flames.
an be prepared to make mistakes an get disheartened ,it looks like a mammoth task when its all apart ,an the last 10% fiddly bits takes the most time,hence the abundance of unfinished projects on e-bay .break it down to small jobs an try an complete 1 off the list every week/day at least,stalled projects often dont get re-started an end up on e bay too.even if its just cleaning/servicing 1 small item its 1 step closer to the finish ,stick at it ,but also be prepared to have a breather when its starting to get too ya ,contrary advice i know but if baulked/stalled on 1 job walk away an try another approach later rather than just giving up an listing it as a project .
any more particular problems there's this forum ,post piccys an ask exact questions an usually get good answers ,ok , welcome to the fun an heartache of scooter mechanics ,careful tho ,it can be contagious an end up like me ,2 garages n 3 sheds full ,1 just done,2 half way an 1 bought last friday an the missus's scoot in bits aswell,an thats just the scoots .an ashamed to say am not quite sure how many scoots/bikes i actually own at the moment an were they are all stashed. cheers henri

[matsuba]

[matsuba]

[matsuba]

[matsuba]

Wow...thank you so much for the encouraging replies and advice! I can't tell how how much braver I feel knowing there are people out there on these forums who are so willing to help. I have got a garage space to work in and I defo will not be spraying it myself as I don't have any equipment of that kind, plus I've heard these scooters are a nightmare to get right!

As you can see I've been and taken some pics for you all to have a look at. She's not in appalling condition but I think you'll agree she needs some tlc...and a paint job! The petrol smells really off too so I'd probably have to get the tank off to empty it. There seems to be a lot of oil down around the bottom of the engine...maybe some seals are rotten? The rust only seems to be surface rust where it's been sanded at some point in the past. The wheel on the outside of the engine turns when you press the kickstart so at least she's not all seized up. I'll follow your advice over the coming months and try and make some progress. 

I'll make sure I keep you all updated and will include as many pics as I can of my journey. There WILL be more questions lol!

Thank you all again for responding :-)

Matt. 

[henri]

yep ,even older fuel with the additives will have lost some of its bang by now ,modern stuff lasts 3-6months without additives.to empty tank easiest way is by removing the pipe from carb an draining it without removing tank from bike ,lob a bit of fresh in ,swill around an empty it out to flush any crap out.
they all have oily bottoms,Ooer,the oil comes from the clutch breather on top off clutch cover ,ya should be draining an changing gearbox oil for sae30 gear oil anyway an should get about 250-300cc out .loads less than this can mean seals are shot ,or selecter box gasket has gone ,output shaft seal is a easy job an is shown by the oil coming out of brake drum/fouling the shoes an back brake not working .
ya front mudgaurd n engine side panel have been cut ,very 80's style ,an i'd expect them "wheelbarrow" tyres to be shot,sidewall cracks an flat spots from standing ,an ya want to pull up that floor mat an check for rust ,same underneath an top of rear shock mount too.tho that exhaust must of been replaced/painted just before lay-up as it looks clean .
anyway this is all leading up to a IMO (i dont do humble) ,half a days recommisioning an about 80-100 quid oil/petrol/tyres cost an ya cud ride that scoot for a bit whilst ya decide n save for a paint job . a blow-over is about 500quid ,but it looks like ya need a bit more prep/bare metal/total re-spray an thats a bag of sand (grand),even if ya do most of prep/filling paint is about a 100 an 3-400 to get a decent sprayer to do it ,coz of there shape inner curves n corners a scoot is harder to spray than a car .so ya need a sprayer with scoot experience rather than a mate who paints garden furniture at work or such like.
youve got a garage so a diy paint job isnt out of reach ,with patience/good prep/practice an right choice of colour/paint ive seen rattle cans produce paint jobs good enuff that you couldnt tell it wasnt pro done .get some laquer an have a go at a rusteration ,where all the scoots honest defects an lifemarks are kept ,will stop rust getting worse whilst ya practice an get it right on side panels .an ya can be riding instead of being stuck in the shed tinkering ,a member of that "lower order" a "pedestrian" .but here's the controversial bit,junk that 80's yankee seat ,i cant stand em an think em ugly ,personal opinion only ,its your scoot ,have it your way an damm anybody who dont approve,just ride it eh ,
an the wheel that goes round on kicking it is properly named the flywheel,hope ya oiled the bore before checking it wasnt seized as rings can get damaged by being freed off ,oiling helps to prevent that but isnt 100%successful always.
an remember "the only stupid question is the 1 ya didnt ask coz ya thought it daft but should of" ok , cheers an welcome to shedology , Henri

[sbwnik]

After twenty five years, there is no way that I'd not be tearing the engine down and checking everything one item at a time.

The chassis looks fine, and I'd run it as it is - it has a look of the early 80s scooterboy rat about it, I'd be more than happy to keep it that way.


The advice at the start about WD40ing everything is good, although I'd use a proper penetrating oil. Grab your camera and take photographs of EVERYTHING. Some things won't be obvious when you come to put them back together, but you can ask away on here.
The Haynes manual is a worthwhile investment, but there is supposedly a P range manual being compiled by a couple of P range freaks, but the odds are that it won't see light of day in the next five years.... Sausage's DVDs are worth buying too, lots of great advice on there.

[henri]

me to probably ,just for peace of mind ,but this is this guys first scoot/project by the sound of it ,an have bought too many stripped scoots that were abandoned projects coz owners got in too deep .ripping it apart is easiest bit,facing a mountain of bits an getting it back together is a whole other ballgame. was trying to curb ya "take it apart" mania for a bit ,so you cud use scoot gently for a bit or at least properly evaluate what it actually needs/you want, not put you off doing it at all.
am just of to buy another abandoned project at 3 oclock ,a vbb150 with v5 thats been blasted n primered an welded,with cleaned/stripped px 125 cases an painted side panels ,recovered seat an most new bits to finish ,360 quid ,only prob is the guy pulled cables n loom an didnt leave a line to pull new 1's in ,time for the curtain rod trick an a days/2days fiddling .tho vbb cables run through a crap tin pipe that means sometimes cutting into under the floor is only way to re-run cables .an brake cables can be a mare if tubes are corroded/bent or old outers are stuck in .
anyway ,my painting/buying partner is mad as all my hard tasks are already done on this 1 ,its ready for him when he's finished painting the rustyess sportique ive just welded up.leaving me 2 weeks to do the clean/fun stuff of 2 engine an forks build-ups in the shed away from rain .Aaahhh bliss ,were life makes sense an i can listen to good music an smoke/fart/belch n swear an not get told off . shedology the 1 true religion . Henri

[rab]

change the oil change the fuel change the plug and fire her up if she has a heart beat so will you to get it done then strip it and make it yours

[sbwnik]

I've been thinking about this today, and if it was me, then I'd start by removing the engine and working on that first.
It's the hardest and most intimidating job you'll have on the scooter, but once it's done, you'll be 75% of the way to getting it on the road, and Vespa engines are the simplest motors in the world... No, really!

It'll also give you chance to renew the cables while you decide what you're doing to the chassis.

[matsuba]

What a fantastic place this is! I'm pretty overwhelmed by the responses so far, so thank you all again!

Well I've made some space in the garage and have organised some desk/bench space too. My Haynes manual is in the post and my head is whirling with thoughts, ideas, questions, doubts and excitement!

I like the idea of replacing the petrol, oil and tyres and just getting it going but I'd be worried of doing damage that wouldn't be obvious to a newbie like me. I also like the "start with the engine" idea too but I think I'd be tempted to leave all the other bits that need doing and just ride it, which may not be my safest idea!

No, I think my mind is made up to get it all stripped back and while the paintwork is getting done to concentrate on replacing cables, gaskets and anything else I can find and trying to clean as much old gunk and oil off as possible in the process. Actually, while I'm talking about it, what is the best way/product to use to clean all that oil that's gone everywhere at the bottom of the engine?

I'm going to look into those DVDs by Sausage(?) I guess he's a member on here?? Things can make more sense sometimes when it's explained like that I think.

So while I'm waiting to get started I'm scouring eBay for bits and bobs and trying to build a picture if what I want the end result to be. If I pull this off, it'll be a miracle!

Bring it on!!

[henri]

sausage is RIP i'm afraid ,never met him,but them that did say he was a diamond mech.luckyily he did his dvd first ,
for a first time guy the haynes manual an sausages dvd are a must ,as ya right a first timer guy might hurt himself/scooter if he just started razzing around .gunk is the stuff for oily bottoms ,scoots not people ,let it soak in an poke worse off with a old/rounded screwdriver an then scrub with a washing up brush an really hot water an fairy liquid ,block all holes the water cud get inside through,a wipe over with a wd40 soaked rag after will stop the ali corroding/furring up after.
careful about were ya shop on e-bay,the stuffs cheap for a reason , somes good somes unusable an most need fettling to fit ,find a local shop or check adverts in back of scootering .most reputable shops have "speed" sumwhere in the name,dont know why, for top quality but higher price SIP in germany ,i use my local 1 allstyles ,good quality an get to look before buying . H

[matsuba]

Sausage DVD pur-chased! I'll get some Gunk too once I've had a look at this DVD and Haynes manual.

Thanks for advice and I'll get back to you all once I've worked out a plan and erm...broken ground, so to speak!

Wish me luck :-)

[Rudi]

Vespa looks nice, ive always wondered if the king and queen seat is comfy as it looks.
Yes, photographing is a good idea, especially wiring etc, assuming you're going to work on it too.
If youre going to get a paint job, you might want to hold back on the wd40, at least for the body parts. Paint doesnt like oily areas (unless vespa is cleaned with some kind of paint cleaner/thinner).

[kru251]

Seconded (or third ed) for taking photo's of everything and from differing angles. It is surprising what seems simple to take apart but then seems to not fit when you go to put it all together again.
Also, it's a great record of where you started and where you "finished". I say that in inverted commas as you NEVER really finish messin' with a scooter!
Take your time. Store things carefully (those freezer bags with lock top are good for the screws etc with a post-it note saying where it/these parts came from), and remember the forum here can help with most things.

[sbwnik]

At the risk of sounding like a name dropper, Sausage was a mate, and an absolute gent. Nothing was too much trouble, and he was happy to share his knowledge.

His DVDs were recorded at the right time, and with the right attitude. They're not exactly dry... Though IIRC his accent (sorry, "arrrgseeennnnt") can take a bit of getting used to (Unless you already have six fingers and a taste for carrots)


Anyway... Good luck, and feel free to ask if you're stuck

There is a comment elsewhere about too many half finished projects because the owner got in over his depth... Patience is the key, and never being afraid to ask!

[henri]

dont worry about rudi's warning over wd40 on paint ya going to strip or atleast flatt back with sandpaper ,the secret to good paint is prep an cleanliness , when flatted back you wash em with de-greasent (fairy liquid)then go over with panel prep wipes which have spirit in,then tack rags that remove all lint/dust.making sure you dont put greasy fingerprints back on clean/dry panels .
know a guy who rents me his spray booth/4 post lift for my car when i need it,he asked me what i thought about a problem on a paint job he'd done ,looked at it an asked him what he dropped on the floor there ,was the keys to motor an being a old-boy had rested hand on wing to bend down an pick em up ,1 2000pound rolls-royce perfect re-spray knackered .
i know you dont think ya ready for paint for ages ,but the side panels inside first is a good place to start/learn on ,then the outside with a better/practised finish ,an having something done an ready to go back on gives you incouragement to crack on.an is something to keep ya busy whilst waiting for parts to turn up . h

[matsuba]

Hi all,

Quick update: Haynes manual-check, Sausage DVD-check, Work bench in garage-check, Work light and (some) tools-check! Didn't actually realise that sockets came in different sizes (1/2", 3/8",1/4") but read that I should get 1/2".

Got the side panels, seat, number plate and horn cover off tonight so I guess that means I've officially started :-)

Just one question...at the beginning of the Sausage DVD there is a comment about having the scooter strapped down before you do any work and you can see his is tied down on the lift. Is this whole idea possible without one of those benches/lifts? Do I need to get it off the floor somehow, like with axel stands or something?

[henri]

for some jobs like cracking off the rear hub nut restraining the scoot is advisable ,but you dont need a bike lift ,there just to save ya knees an back if your doing it all day , a can of beer an a "passing mate/relative/stranger" is just as effective ,when stripping i generally remove the centre stand an stick scoot on a beer crate ,empty 1 unfortunately, if in my car garage ive a hoist so stick em on my workmate ,if not stripped,an just lift on stripped 1's in for welding/paint prep.there not that heavy ,
loosen the rear hub nut ,then take of rear rim,lower engine with exhaust down onto a block ,cover with cloth/cushion if exhaust is decent/chrome,disconnect wires/pipes/bolts ,then you can easily wheel the frame forward an up away from engine ,the only place it catches is around the carb/air box.its real easy with 2 people but do-able on your own .
forgot to say to wangle the rear rim off its easiest to pop off the rear bumper an lift the scoot onto a axle stand,it only needs a extra inch to get rim out.you can do it without stand but will need a mate to push down on the front mudgaurd with 1 hand whilst holding scoot from rolling forward off the stand with other hand.they will have to put the beer/bribe down .
to get forks out is easiest with 2 too,1 to slide em out an 1 to lift/tilt scoot backwards to give ya the height.sausage was a guy who was doing scoots 7/24 so it made sense to invest 300-400 for a bike lift/bench,if just doing your own scoot theres cheaper ways round ,an ya dont want to blow all ya cash on kitting your garage ,leaving less for the scoot ,h

[rab]

on a bench and straps with power tools at hand along with the exact spanner at hand is the perfect world get it on its stand to strip it all to engine then on a pair of axle stands to get the engine out without it being a nightmare failing the axle stands use a crate and some planks of wood well placed to balance your scoot i striped and painted mine in an 8ft wide by 12ft long wooden shed in winter with a 600 watt heat light above me as it was winter and to dry the paint if i can do it in them conditions anyone can

[sbwnik]

Mine gets lobbed onto it's side on the floor outside if I need to drop the engine or forks

Like Henri says, Sausage was a professional scooter mechanic, so he had to have everything just right.

[sime66]

Shed?

Bloomin' luxury!

I made a little ramp, so I could tie the front down, then once the engine was out left the back chocked up on bricks in the garden - perfick!

[rab]

were there is a will there is a way sime that contraption is a one off get a copy right on it

[henri]

love the improvisation sime ,an nic forgot the on the side method ,matsuba if ya go on the side dont forget to drain all fluids first (oil,battery off,oil) ,but you wont want to re-assemble that way with a new paint job .an rab 8ft by 12 an with heat an power ,i have to travel 60 miles to use my dads garage to get such luxury ,non of my sheds an garage have power in brighton ,have to use missus's shed 7x6,single door an up 4 steps an no spraying .tho old lady upstairs is deaf so can grind an bang myself to heaven . an sime for the future how about a cheap gazebo an walls from 99pstore tarps ,keeps the rain off an the windchill down,an if careful about weather (heat/humidity)can be used for painting ,thats pretty much what those at-home detailers/scratch/bump repairers use, an what my mate set up to spray his lamb-chop,tho we did get drunk an his girlfriends decking is mostly baby-blue still . h

[sime66]

I'm glad you like it chaps.
I have no plans for expanding on the design though, and my reason for this is simple:

I WANT TO SPEND LESS TIME WORKING ON IT AND MORE TIME RIDING IT!!

Sorry about that, but you'd be surprised how much better it made me feel to get that off my chest!

[matsuba]

That's all made me feel better about my somewhat amateur set-up! At the moment I'm getting about an hour per night to work on her. I've got a load of old plastic trays that I'm using for collecting the bits and bobs I'm taking off and labelling/marking them up and I'm going to invest in some axel stands-if I can't get hold of any beer crates!!

So far I've got the side panels off (lol) and the glovebox, number plate, seat/fixings, indicators, rear light cover (though the actual light looks like it's bolted from inside the chassis so I'll get the engine off first) and the plastic footboard between the running boards.

While doing all this I noticed it has two dents in the front leg panels (I'll get the correct terminology eventually) as well as the silver trim around the edge was cracked and broken so I've pulled it all off. As far as the dents do, they aren't too bad but I'm just hoping the frame isn't bent, after all this prep!

I'll get some pics up this weekend to see what you all think. I'm planning on getting the engine off this weekend too...gulp.

[rab]

Back light is bolted from behind get your hand up the ass end ooooerrrrrr

[matsuba]

Oh, and Henri...I too used to live in Brighton (well Hove, actually!) so I can feel your pain regarding lack of space to work...that's one of the reasons we moved back up north. I do miss it though sometimes, especially in the summer. Did you make it down to the beach when they put that Stella Screen up and showed Quadrophenia? It was quite a few years back now though. My missus still works for the same company down in Brighton so we still come down once or twice a year. Is there a good scene going down there? You sound like you really enjoy this whole scooter lark! :-)