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Post by super150 on Apr 11, 2013 9:27:09 GMT
Hi all. 150 super with lml star deluxe engine. Not sure of the clutch I need. Ordered 2 now and both wrong. The hole is slightly too small on both of them. First one was this www.sip-scootershop.com/en/main/base/Details.aspx?ProductNumber=93151000Then today's attempt was this one VESPA LML CLUTCH ASSEMBLY 21 COGS TEETH 7 SPRINGS STAR DELUXE T5 NEW MODEL Thought I had it right this time.....but oh no, not "lucky jase" Can anyone help me out here? |
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Post by super150 on Apr 11, 2013 9:30:04 GMT
Old clutch on the left Attachments:
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Post by super150 on Apr 11, 2013 10:14:05 GMT
Cosa 2??
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Post by sbwnik on Apr 11, 2013 19:30:33 GMT
Your old one looks like a Mk1 P range/Rally type clutch.
The other plates you have both look like Cosa styled clutch plates, despite the name they appear in just about every Vespa from the mid/late 80s on. Yours must be earlier?
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Post by super150 on Apr 11, 2013 21:17:58 GMT
I spoke to somebody at SIP yesterday and they seem to think I have an oversized crankshaft and recommended I just enlarge the diameter of the hole. Is this a lathe job or a Dremmel type job?
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Post by sbwnik on Apr 11, 2013 21:28:20 GMT
Hmm.. never heard of that! Lathe would be safer I suppose
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Post by kru251 on Apr 11, 2013 22:25:06 GMT
Using I/S calipers, what is the size differential between the old fitting one and the new non fitting ones?
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Post by super150 on Apr 12, 2013 7:36:07 GMT
Well my crankshaft measures 16mm. But every clutch I get is 15mm.
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Post by kru251 on Apr 12, 2013 16:54:36 GMT
Well my crankshaft measures 16mm. But every clutch I get is 15mm. That's only half a mm a side. I'd hardly bother with a lathe!!!! |
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Post by webrest on Apr 15, 2013 13:46:17 GMT
Well my crankshaft measures 16mm. But every clutch I get is 15mm. That's only half a mm a side. I'd hardly bother with a lathe!!!! Whoa!! Lathe only on this type of operation This has to be right, not close enough. These things are spinning at high revs and need to be true. Hope I'm no too late. |
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mickymidas
High Number
2Ronnies sc , Nuneaton.....Promoting chuckleism to the masses
Posts: 232
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Post by mickymidas on Apr 15, 2013 13:57:43 GMT
Wouldn't it be a better idea to take the old clutch to a shop who know what they are on about and see what advice they can give ? and compare what they have in stock .
Surely it would make sense that if you have a LML star engine a LML shop would be the 1st port of call...There is a list in Scootering that covers most of the UK.
I know they are "roughly " the same as a Vespa but , have minor differences.....Ordering off the web is all well and good , and SIP are a proven supplier of quality kit, but when you have problems like this local knowledge goes a long way.
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Post by super150 on Apr 15, 2013 14:15:19 GMT
That's only half a mm a side. I'd hardly bother with a lathe!!!! Whoa!! Lathe only on this type of operation This has to be right, not close enough. These things are spinning at high revs and need to be true. Hope I'm no too late. Fraid so, I had a mate offer to do it for me too but I opted for the die grinder. Now I know it's probably not 100% concentric and I'm no engineer but do you reckon it's going to make that much difference?? Sort of wish I had gone down the lathe road but its abit late now so I'm just gonna have to suck it and see. I haven't quite finished it yet but it's getting there. |
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Post by kru251 on Apr 15, 2013 16:59:53 GMT
That's only half a mm a side. I'd hardly bother with a lathe!!!! Whoa!! Lathe only on this type of operation This has to be right, not close enough. These things are spinning at high revs and need to be true. Hope I'm no too late. And all that material on a 16mm diameter close to the centre of the crankshaft? Hmmmm. Now if it was the outside area I might agree but 0.5mm. Doubt if they are balanced that well to start with!!! |
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Post by sbwnik on Apr 15, 2013 19:37:16 GMT
You're going to shift it sideways if you get the middle off true. It'll be the same effect.
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Post by joey on Apr 16, 2013 10:42:29 GMT
One bent crank coming up............
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Post by sbwnik on Apr 16, 2013 18:24:31 GMT
I doubt it'll bend the crank, but it'll shake like a lady toy.
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Post by super150 on Apr 17, 2013 7:05:24 GMT
Could this be the problem Attachments:
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Post by joey on Apr 17, 2013 8:03:30 GMT
Not sur what you're asking us to look at apart from an enlarged keyway?
As for a badly balanced clutch not bending the crank, I'd disagree.
As Nik says it will vibrate like a bitch putting extra strain on the bearing and seal but the inertia of having more weight on one side of the clutch WILL eventually lead to the crank bending towards the edge with more weight. Best case would be a twisted crank, worst case would be it snapping at the keyway.
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Post by super150 on Apr 17, 2013 9:47:34 GMT
Ok I'm going to need a new crankshaft then. I'm also going to need some help to do this.
Standard or Racing crankshaft? (bearing in mind it has a tuning kit)
Also, could someone advise me on the other parts I should renew whilst undertaking a job like this. This could turn into a very long thread me thinks.
S***! where do I start???
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Post by bryno on Apr 17, 2013 15:44:13 GMT
New crank for sure, I'd not be happy with that keyway, I'd just go with a standard LML replacement unless you are planning some more radical tuning? is it a reed valved LML engine?
New crank oil seals, woodruff keys and main bearings, gasket set and job done! probably!
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Post by sbwnik on Apr 17, 2013 20:05:51 GMT
Is the keyway actually opened? From here it looks like it's got lipped slightly? If so, I'd try gently dressing it back with a lot of patience and a small engineers file. I've recovered cranks like that in the past without any problems.
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Post by super150 on Apr 18, 2013 8:50:24 GMT
Yes its a 5 port reed valve. Took engine out today, any little surprises for me when I take it apart? ie springs or clips that go pinging in all directions never to be seen again?  |
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Post by super150 on Apr 18, 2013 22:44:30 GMT
Mate, I'm not even gonna try! Rather get the whole new kit and kaboodle for peace of mind!
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Post by sbwnik on Apr 19, 2013 1:50:21 GMT
Really... Gently file the edges flush if they've risen, then put a woodruff key in the slot. If it's tight then it's fine.
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Post by kru251 on Apr 26, 2013 10:17:22 GMT
I think myself that looks like a classic case of a non-too-hardened crank having had a clutch fitted with an incorrectly torqued clutch retaining nut that has allowed the clutch basket to shunt backwards. That's why the woodruff key slot has angled on the 'drive' side; as that's where the pressure is.
New crank I reckon as the best (but not the cheapest) solution.
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Post by pxguru on Apr 26, 2013 16:50:08 GMT
I wouldn't run a standard on that crank!  you need to ask yourself what do you want it to be; reliable and gut-less, sporty and nippy, fast and juicy or as mental as money will buy? |
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Post by kru251 on Apr 27, 2013 6:34:20 GMT
I wouldn't run a standard on that crank! Agreed!!!! you need to ask yourself what do you want it to be; Very reliable and gut-less, sporty and nippy (and less reliable), fast and juicy (less reliable still) or as mental as money will buy (and a workshop queen LOVL)? |
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