Which pipe on a Pinasco 225?

[modpx]

Hello everyone, which pipe you put under a Pinasco long stroke 225? Pinasco is considered a low-revs cilynder which doesnt work well with high revs pipes.. Any suggestion? I own a Zirri for PX200 at the moment that i havent mounted yet.

[sbwnik]

If it's low down grunt, and you're not looking for a race type (and looks) pipe, why not try a SIP Street, or Broady's now one when it comes out?

[modpx]

Dec 21, 2012 22:27:03 GMT sbwnik said:

If it's low down grunt, and you're not looking for a race type (and looks) pipe, why not try a SIP Street, or Broady's now one when it comes out?

Pinasco it's a touring torquey cylinder but i wouldnt like to put a Sip road, i was trying to find something more racing, i drilled the air filter and put the short 4rth gear 36 teeth (from DRT) in order to get higher revs... How about a Zirri? Do you know that pipe? Any other suggestion?

[kru251]

The topic interested me so I had a scan. Can't find much but found this on another site............. so ?

"I ran a Zirri pipe on a highly tuned P125 a ways back and did not like it much, not so much because of performance but because of build quality. This was back in the late '90s though, so depending on when your pipe was produced it may have better construction.

Basically since it was a solid mount it kept ripping through the metal near the bracket. I kept having to get it welded and eventually gave up, going back to an MSC Micron (remember those!) that had its own mounting issues.

Also it was pretty loud as it had a very basic silencer only".

[pxguru]

Modpx, I'm a little upset. Why you put a T5 4th in a Pinasco? And you have a 60mm crank too!! If you cant pull a 35 tooth with that kit and crank......its not set up right. If you put a 30mm carb on it too you should will be thinking about a 34 tooth 4th to cruise faster. The Pinasco has the most torque of all the kits.
Many of the kits come with low compression heads so it might not be all your fault but you should have measured everything when you were putting it together. A pinasco doesn't have the ports to be a 9000 rpm screamer! I'm happy to help if you want to sort it out.

[bsr65]

A mate has pinasco kit and pinasco exhaust, it's a great set up, he has toured all over europe with no problems and gets better fuel consumption than standard P2 s.

[modpx]

Dec 22, 2012 0:06:53 GMT kru251 said:

The topic interested me so I had a scan. Can't find much but found this on another site............. so ?

"I ran a Zirri pipe on a highly tuned P125 a ways back and did not like it much, not so much because of performance but because of build quality. This was back in the late '90s though, so depending on when your pipe was produced it may have better construction.

Basically since it was a solid mount it kept ripping through the metal near the bracket. I kept having to get it welded and eventually gave up, going back to an MSC Micron (remember those!) that had its own mounting issues.

Also it was pretty loud as it had a very basic silencer only".

The Zirri i got is brand new, 0.8 mm, build appositely for me(it took 2 months to Angelo Zirri before the delivery) and has a great quality. only problem is i bought it when i didn't have Pinasco in mind. ..what is making me doubt about it is the fact that is considered very good for very high performance cilinders which rev very high (Zirri, Quattrini, PArmakit) and many are suggesting me not to put it under my Pinasco. Do you remember which kit your mate had on his P125? It's loud yes, but im not shy

[modpx]

Dec 22, 2012 4:45:26 GMT pxguru said:

Modpx, I'm a little upset. Why you put a T5 4th in a Pinasco? And you have a 60mm crank too!! If you cant pull a 35 tooth with that kit and crank......its not set up right. If you put a 30mm carb on it too you should will be thinking about a 34 tooth 4th to cruise faster. The Pinasco has the most torque of all the kits.
Many of the kits come with low compression heads so it might not be all your fault but you should have measured everything when you were putting it together. A pinasco doesn't have the ports to be a 9000 rpm screamer! I'm happy to help if you want to sort it out.

Thank you very much for your answer, i matched the port at the base of the cilinder, the head (original pinasco included in the kit) has a very good compression. I chose the short fourth to cancel the "gap" between the third and fourth gear that i find pretty annoying, also because with shorter transmission the Vespa with this Kit wheelies in every gear! I have the Sì 24 carb which is perfect for touring..what i was searching from this set up is something between a street racer and a fast tourer... thats why it probably looks a bit "illogical". The top speed is a bit lower with this set up but the vespa is super torquey and it still reaches a good enough top speed. I cant try it yet ont he road cause here in scandinavia where i live at the moment roads are full covered in ice and snow..so im taking my time to work on the adjustments.. Sorry for my english, it's not very good what comes engine parts and techincal language.

[modpx]

Dec 22, 2012 10:22:49 GMT bsr65 said:

A mate has pinasco kit and pinasco exhaust, it's a great set up, he has toured all over europe with no problems and gets better fuel consumption than standard P2 s.

Yeah Pinasco pipe with Pinasco kit..i dont know why it's such an underrated combination... not much people uses it neither in Italy nor in northern europe. myself never tryed a chrome pinasco pipe although i have to admit it looks really cool ;D thanks for the tip, i'll investigate...

[modpx]

Dec 22, 2012 21:10:31 GMT modpx said:

Dec 22, 2012 0:06:53 GMT kru251 said:

The topic interested me so I had a scan. Can't find much but found this on another site............. so ?

"I ran a Zirri pipe on a highly tuned P125 a ways back and did not like it much, not so much because of performance but because of build quality. This was back in the late '90s though, so depending on when your pipe was produced it may have better construction.

Basically since it was a solid mount it kept ripping through the metal near the bracket. I kept having to get it welded and eventually gave up, going back to an MSC Micron (remember those!) that had its own mounting issues.

Also it was pretty loud as it had a very basic silencer only".

The Zirri i got is brand new, 0.8 mm, build appositely for me(it took 2 months to Angelo Zirri before the delivery) and has a great quality. only problem is i bought it when i didn't have Pinasco in mind. ..what is making me doubt about it is the fact that is considered very good for very high performance cilinders which rev very high (Zirri, Quattrini, PArmakit) and many are suggesting me not to put it under my Pinasco. Do you remember which kit your mate had on his P125? It's loud yes, but im not shy

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[pxguru]

Like the idea of wheelies in every gear! And sounds like you are almost there but if you still have a gap between 3rd and 4th (36tooth) I'm sorry but it just isn't set up right. At the top end of tuning 2 strokes every 0.1 of a mm counts. Guys can't just bolt stuff on out of the box and expect maximum performance. Sometimes people get lucky with the tolerances but by measuring and adjusting a few things to suit your engine there is no luck involved.
I calculated for your set up you need to have at least the following two important things right;
1. The top edge of your main transfer ports should be no more than 47.5mm down from where your piston is at the top of stroke (TDC). Use a feeler gauge to measure the minus deck and vernier from the deck to the port roof.

After adjusting the barrel to get the ports at the right height, then;

2. Compression should be over 10.5:1 but not more than 11:1. Measure carefully with a syringe, some oil and a calculator. Less than 10.5:1 and it won't have full torque, more than 11:1 it won't have max power.
I know I go on a bit but sometimes I have a point

btw. For this set up just use the exhaust you like the sound of. Pinasco are one of my old favorites!

[modpx]

Dec 23, 2012 4:27:26 GMT pxguru said:

Like the idea of wheelies in every gear! And sounds like you are almost there but if you still have a gap between 3rd and 4th (36tooth) I'm sorry but it just isn't set up right. At the top end of tuning 2 strokes every 0.1 of a mm counts. Guys can't just bolt stuff on out of the box and expect maximum performance. Sometimes people get lucky with the tolerances but by measuring and adjusting a few things to suit your engine there is no luck involved.
I calculated for your set up you need to have at least the following two important things right;
1. The top edge of your main transfer ports should be no more than 47.5mm down from where your piston is at the top of stroke (TDC). Use a feeler gauge to measure the minus deck and vernier from the deck to the port roof.

After adjusting the barrel to get the ports at the right height, then;

2. Compression should be over 10.5:1 but not more than 11:1. Measure carefully with a syringe, some oil and a calculator. Less than 10.5:1 and it won't have full torque, more than 11:1 it won't have max power.
I know I go on a bit but sometimes I have a point

btw. For this set up just use the exhaust you like the sound of. Pinasco are one of my old favorites!

Hi Guru thanks for the explanation, there´s a misunderstanding though, it´s just cause i put the short 4th 36 that i solved the- gap between 3rd and 4rth-problem. i also add the long third gear by DRT, reinforced the primary gear and the clutch BUT no calculation of the compression and the top edge of the main transfer ports. I see you vote for the Pinasco pipe as well... Could JL Righthand create a super torquey monster combined with my set up?? Some say I could carry a tractor with that..

[pxguru]

Yes, you are right, I understood you still had a gap between the gears even with the T5 4th. You have done a fine job so far but what I was saying is still correct though. With the full torque from the Pinasco kit you wouldn't have needed to mess with the gearing. You have not "solved" it just hidden it.
You think goes well now but set up the barrel and head right and you will think its Christmas.......oh it is Christmas! ;D but seriously, all PX200 engines are far from exactly the same. On scooters exhaust ports can be whole millimeters out and it doesn't really matter. Scooter transfer ports are not so forgiving, just a fraction too low and no mid range torque.
A properly set up Pinasco kit on a 60mm crank will pull a longer 34 tooth 4th gear without any gear gap.
You have plenty of time before the thaw, get in your garage and see how you measure up!

[modpx]

Here's my new pipe, it goes really well especially at lower range, gives a great kick and has an supercool sound. Top speed so far 123 km (odometer, not gps) with me on top 115kg.

[kru251]

Jan 3, 2013 10:22:24 GMT modpx said:

Top speed so far 123 km (odometer, not gps) with me on top 115kg.

With you on top? So the 8 km difference; were you alongside it on skate board then? ;D

[pxguru]

Kru have you been finishing off the mulled wine? ;D

[kru251]

;D
Tee total me.
Vivid imagination? Yep!!!!!