petec
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 15
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Post by petec on Dec 30, 2011 14:08:23 GMT
I have a PX200 with a left hand sports exhaust on. I am a complete technofobe so not sure what make the exhaust is. My question - and sorry if this has already been asked - is I can't get the rear wheel off. It won't go past the exhaust. The chaps at Beedspeed reckon the only way to do it is to take part of the exhaust off. Er.... how hard is this to do? Like I say I'm useless at anything mechanical (why did you buy a scooter I hear you ask) but wife bought me some nice shiny chrome rims for Chrimbo and I put the front one on OK but the rear one is a totally different beast. Any help hints or tips would be very gratefully received. Cheers people. Oh and if lying it on the side, should I leave the sidepanel on or take it off?
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Post by jackthekipper on Dec 30, 2011 18:08:34 GMT
right pal...the easiest ( only ) way is dropping the exhaust..remove the two bolts where its fastened to the frame underneath & the back end of the pipe will swivel down to the floor...then undo the clamp where its fastened to the engine & twist it from side to side pulling downwards till it comes off..not difficult when you've done it once...& the easiest way of removing the wheel in my experience is..loosen the wheel nuts whilst its on the stand, tip the scoot on its side on to an old mattress or grass verge..undo the nuts & remove wobbling it out to the rear of the bike...before tipping it over,take the petrol cap off , put a polythene carrier bag over the top & tighten the cap back on over it to stop petrol seeping out..sounds a bit of a ball ache i know but like i said, when youve done it once..its simple next time......yup...i'd take the panel off just in case
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petec
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 15
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Post by petec on Dec 30, 2011 18:22:24 GMT
Thanks Jack I had a bad feeling that was gonna be the answer! I can jack up the back of the scoot with a handy thing the Mrs got me from Village Scooters on ebay but totally scared of a) breaking something or b) not being able to get it back on if I remove the exhaust. Looks like I'm gonna have to give it a try though!!! Thanks mate, really appreciate your help. May give this a go tomorrow.
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Post by jackthekipper on Dec 30, 2011 18:34:02 GMT
done it once mate by jacking the back end up with a scissor jack & lump of wood at the rear of the frame,but its got to go pretty high & the wobble factor is a bit dodgy unless theres two of ya  |
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Post by Robjack on Dec 30, 2011 18:41:05 GMT
I also use the block of wood under the gearbox method, as long as the centre stand is still rooted it should be stable enough. It's important not to be afraid of it. Weigh up what you have to do, and work out the sequence that you have to do it in. Take your time and most importantly, use the right tools. If it came off, it will go back on again Remember that it's a Vespa, not the space shuttle, and they are dead easy to work on. Sometimes it's a bit fiddly but you will do it. How's that for positive thinking?  |
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Post by Robjack on Dec 30, 2011 18:53:02 GMT
BTW, Re the block of wood, get one that lifts it enough so that the front wheel is just touching the floor. That way the centre stand will still be inside its tipping point and you will have enough room to work on it. It also helps if someone will hold the scoot by tipping it towards them raising one leg of he stand (no block of wood here) when removing the exhaust bolt that goes through the frame.
You will make things easier if you deflate the tyre before trying to remove this bolt.
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petec
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 15
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Post by petec on Dec 30, 2011 19:18:54 GMT
I also use the block of wood under the gearbox method, as long as the centre stand is still rooted it should be stable enough. It's important not to be afraid of it. Weigh up what you have to do, and work out the sequence that you have to do it in. Take your time and most importantly, use the right tools. If it came off, it will go back on again Remember that it's a Vespa, not the space shuttle, and they are dead easy to work on. Sometimes it's a bit fiddly but you will do it. How's that for positive thinking? Lol, Rob you have no idea of how ham fisted I am when it comes to anything remotely technical like this. Cheers for your help bud. I bought one of these from ebay: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190592609305#ht_1356wt_1270really does the job to lift the bike up. It's just the exhaust which looks to be in 2 or 3 sections, two of which are held together with a spring. I may be able to get the wheel past the exhaust if I can undo the spring, undo the bolts and then just push it to the floor. |
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 4, 2012 18:19:36 GMT
Bin the pipe and buy something that will help the engine work better and which exits on the RHS.
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Post by Devo McDuff on Jan 4, 2012 22:56:21 GMT
Bin the pipe and buy something that will help the engine work better and which exits on the RHS. How come? |
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 5, 2012 3:12:12 GMT
I've yet to come across an aftermarket exhaust for a standard P2 which outperforms the good old Sito +, until I bought the new SIP pipe - looks like a stock pipe but makes a shed load of difference.
Sports pipes look good, but loose power into headwinds and up hills, just where you need to torque. The two pipes I mention are both designed for low down torque rather than flat out speed with very little torque, it being torque that helps you climb hills and fight headwinds. You know the 4th/3rd/4th/3rd/4th.... gear shuffle you do on hills? I don't need to, all the power is at the lower half of the rev range where it holds steady (Windy Hill on the M62 out of Lancashire excepted!)
Every single sports/race pipe I've come across on a P2 (and P125 for that matter) has the same problem. Excellent on the flat, but given the slightest resistance and you're knackered - the other effect of shifting the power up the rev range is that my almost stock scooter will outsprint you from the lights unless you're running a kit with it.
There are other things you can do - a high compression head helps slightly, and a Harry Barlow type stage 4 conversion helps even more - but I'd back my SIP piped stock 200 piece of crap over a PM piped stock 200 anyday.
FTR - I've run Polini, PM, Mickek, Sterling and more over the years, and not one has stood up to either a Sito + or the SIP.
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petec
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 15
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Post by petec on Jan 5, 2012 19:56:11 GMT
I've yet to come across an aftermarket exhaust for a standard P2 which outperforms the good old Sito +, until I bought the new SIP pipe - looks like a stock pipe but makes a shed load of difference. Sports pipes look good, but loose power into headwinds and up hills, just where you need to torque. The two pipes I mention are both designed for low down torque rather than flat out speed with very little torque, it being torque that helps you climb hills and fight headwinds. You know the 4th/3rd/4th/3rd/4th.... gear shuffle you do on hills? I don't need to, all the power is at the lower half of the rev range where it holds steady (Windy Hill on the M62 out of Lancashire excepted!) Every single sports/race pipe I've come across on a P2 (and P125 for that matter) has the same problem. Excellent on the flat, but given the slightest resistance and you're knackered - the other effect of shifting the power up the rev range is that my almost stock scooter will outsprint you from the lights unless you're running a kit with it. There are other things you can do - a high compression head helps slightly, and a Harry Barlow type stage 4 conversion helps even more - but I'd back my SIP piped stock 200 piece of crap over a PM piped stock 200 anyday. FTR - I've run Polini, PM, Mickek, Sterling and more over the years, and not one has stood up to either a Sito + or the SIP. Eventually I'll have to get a right hand side pipe anyway. Having to muck around with the exhaust to change the rear wheel if you have a flat is ridiculous really. Plus the left hand exhaust means I can't carry a spare anyway unless I buy a 3 in one rear rack. Still not changed the rear. Saturday perhaps. |
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Post by Robjack on Jan 5, 2012 21:32:04 GMT
I've yet to come across an aftermarket exhaust for a standard P2 which outperforms the good old Sito +, until I bought the new SIP pipe - looks like a stock pipe but makes a shed load of difference. Sports pipes look good, but loose power into headwinds and up hills, just where you need to torque. The two pipes I mention are both designed for low down torque rather than flat out speed with very little torque, it being torque that helps you climb hills and fight headwinds. You know the 4th/3rd/4th/3rd/4th.... gear shuffle you do on hills? I don't need to, all the power is at the lower half of the rev range where it holds steady (Windy Hill on the M62 out of Lancashire excepted!) Every single sports/race pipe I've come across on a P2 (and P125 for that matter) has the same problem. Excellent on the flat, but given the slightest resistance and you're knackered - the other effect of shifting the power up the rev range is that my almost stock scooter will outsprint you from the lights unless you're running a kit with it. There are other things you can do - a high compression head helps slightly, and a Harry Barlow type stage 4 conversion helps even more - but I'd back my SIP piped stock 200 piece of crap over a PM piped stock 200 anyday. FTR - I've run Polini, PM, Mickek, Sterling and more over the years, and not one has stood up to either a Sito + or the SIP. This one Nik? www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/racing+exhaust+sip+road+for_24165000I've been toying with ditching the Simonini for a while and this seems right up my street. Presumably the up-jetting I have with the Simo (118) will do for this one, or do you reckon I will need to go higher? |
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Post by Devo McDuff on Jan 5, 2012 23:27:03 GMT
Interesting reading on the performance.
Regarding not being able to have a left side exit sports pipe and a spare wheel, you should be able to get round that by having longer bolts to secure the spare and push it out a touch. This worked for the Sterling on my PX.
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 6, 2012 1:44:06 GMT
That's the one Robjack. I will say that it sounds truly awful, but the extra poke is worth making others listen to my racket!
Mines jetted to pre-autolube standard + 1 (I'm running a the Mk1 high comp head too) which I think is 122, but not positive without looking!
There is a solution to the tyre thing which also solves one of the odder things Piaggio insisted on doing.. You know how to check the tyre pressure on a P range spare you need to pop the spare off?
Here's my take on it...
Take the spare off. Grab a pair of mole grips. Grasp the two fixed mounting bolts with the molegrips and twist back and forth until the spot welds snap (took me about five minutes and it felt GOOD! LOL). Now get two longer bolts - I think mine are about 40mm and fasten them in place with nuts and washers, or if you're feeling up to it, weld them in place.
Now get a pair of P200 head spacer nuts (the ones for the head cowl) and screw them onto the bolts, so that there is enough thread in the nuts to fasten a bolt into.
Put the spare wheel on with the valve facing outwards and hold in place with two bolts through the wheel and into the extension nuts, and one long bolt through the lower mounting hold. This spaces the wheel out far enough to use a LHS exhaust and also enables you to get to the valve without even taking the panel off.
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petec
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 15
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Post by petec on Jan 8, 2012 19:43:02 GMT
Thanks everybody for your help, I probably wouldn't have even attempted it had it not been for some of the comments on here. Exhaust off, new rim on, exhaust back on. Phew!!!
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 9, 2012 9:14:38 GMT
It gets easier with practice Pete  I'm not reading back to see if anyone suggested it, but if you use the 'lying the scooter on it's side' method of wheel removal, then popping the lower mount bolt for the suspension off, and swinging the engine out slightly makes the tyre removal easier. |
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Post by joey on Jan 10, 2012 0:30:30 GMT
Yeah but a PM looks cool as f**k!
On a slightly more serious note................. the Sito+, although sounding sh*te, does give best bang for buck on a standard.
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 10, 2012 14:46:20 GMT
Joey, damn right abouthte looks of the PM, but I like to ride not pose  If you think the Sito the best, try the SIP next time, it's much better through the mid range, and feels more solid than the Sito. If I get more than a year out of it, I'll have another next time too! |
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petec
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 15
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Post by petec on Jan 12, 2012 20:04:15 GMT
Joey, damn right abouthte looks of the PM, but I like to ride not pose If you think the Sito the best, try the SIP next time, it's much better through the mid range, and feels more solid than the Sito. If I get more than a year out of it, I'll have another next time too! I think (think being the operative word here) that the exhaust that's on is a Scorpion. If I got a right sided exhaust like the SIP one, do I need worry about changing any jets? |
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 12, 2012 21:46:56 GMT
Find out what your standard jets should be (I can never remember...) and then go up one size from there. A ten minute job, if you need advice ask again.
With a Scorpion (Or PM, Sterling or pretty much anything else) on, I'd expect it to be jetted at least one up, they normally need it.
I've run a Sito + on stock jetting, the SIP is an upjet job.
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petec
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 15
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Post by petec on Jan 13, 2012 13:37:51 GMT
Cheers Nik. I guess if I asked SIP to send the right jets for a P2 they'd do so. I put a Simmonini on a T5 and didn't touch the jets and it went like the clappers!!
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 14, 2012 1:58:30 GMT
Mine came with the right jet, but I bought it second hand (hardly used though!) so it may be worth checking to see.. Mind you, for the price of a jet, it's not worth the hassle.
Brave running a Simmo without upjetting, they're notorious for running lean at the top end and T5 cylinders aren't cheap to replace!.
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Post by kru251 on Feb 1, 2012 22:22:46 GMT
SBWNIK
There is a solution to the tyre thing which also solves one of the odder things Piaggio insisted on doing.. You know how to check the tyre pressure on a P range spare you need to pop the spare off?
Here's my take on it...
Take the spare off. Grab a pair of mole grips. Grasp the two fixed mounting bolts with the molegrips and twist back and forth until the spot welds snap (took me about five minutes and it felt GOOD! LOL). Now get two longer bolts - I think mine are about 40mm and fasten them in place with nuts and washers, or if you're feeling up to it, weld them in place.
Now get a pair of P200 head spacer nuts (the ones for the head cowl) and screw them onto the bolts, so that there is enough thread in the nuts to fasten a bolt into.
Put the spare wheel on with the valve facing outwards and hold in place with two bolts through the wheel and into the extension nuts, and one long bolt through the lower mounting hold. This spaces the wheel out far enough to use a LHS exhaust and also enables you to get to the valve without even taking the panel off.
Brilliant idea. I wondered how one could easily check the pressureon the spare. Thanks for that!!!!!!!
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Post by sbwnik on Feb 5, 2012 11:27:16 GMT
Cheers.... It took me a bit of headscratching and swearing before I came up with the idea. It's not perfect, and if it helps I can measure the bolts next time I'm in the garage.
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Post by Robjack on Feb 26, 2012 21:25:23 GMT
Re: The SIP road pipe. After trying it, It's everything Nik says it is. Well impressed.
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Post by sbwnik on Feb 27, 2012 19:32:29 GMT
Speaking of the Road pipe.... I managed to surprise myself last week with mine. Got into a traffic light drag race with a chavvy Saxo. Changed a little later than normal into second, grabbed the throttle and got the front end off the ground. No pulling, no racing position, just a quick handful of throttle and up it came.
That's never happened before!
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