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Post by jaz on Jan 16, 2011 18:07:12 GMT
So you've got one Vespa that's still not finished after nine years, what's the sensible thing to do? Buy another one of course  Anyway... It's a '65 model that's been standing for three or four years but I'd got it started without too much trouble. I was testing the lights, stopped the engine with the kill button and then it wouldn't start again. There's a big fat blue spark, but after kicking it over several times I pulled the plug out only to discover the plug was dry. There's fresh fuel in the tank, and the tank doesn't look particularly rusty. So I had the carb off, took the jets out and blew lots of compressed air through everything. There was some silty goodness in the float bowl which was despatched with a blast of carb cleaner. I put it all back together - exactly the same. I took the carb off again - the float bowl was full of fuel, so it's getting that far which I guess means the float isn't sticking. However, there's still no fuel reaching the cylinder. Any ideas? It's supposed to be going for it's MOT next Friday  |
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Post by bryno on Jan 17, 2011 9:02:31 GMT
Blimey Jaz, are you really still working on that Sportique??  Worst scenario is the sealing pad on the casings is gubbed and you are not getting a good enough seal to draw the fuel mix through to the cylinder.. But before looking at that I'd go over the carb one more time, lift the tank and be sure fuel flow is good out the tap, if not clean that out.. |
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Post by jaz on Jan 17, 2011 22:36:49 GMT
Blimey Jaz, are you really still working on that Sportique?? Eyup Bryn! It's a 152L2 actually, but it's been so long you can be forgiven for forgetting! Not so much working on it, it's in one of it's 'being ignored because I'm hacked off with it' stages ;D In my defence I've actually got a couple of other projects on the road in between, the garage is a bit crowded now... Worst scenario is the sealing pad on the casings is gubbed and you are not getting a good enough seal to draw the fuel mix through to the cylinder.. But before looking at that I'd go over the carb one more time, lift the tank and be sure fuel flow is good out the tap, if not clean that out.. I think the sealing pad should be OK as it ran pretty well until it suddenly refused to re-start, it started easily too - first kick. I've had the tank out, the fuel gushes out of the tap (it looks new actually) so that all looks OK. I took the carb off and gave it another going through with the carb cleaner and compressed air and after about 20 kicks the plug is slightly wet. I'd have expected it to be properly flooded, or is that wrong? Either way, when you kick it now there isn't the first sign of life |
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Post by Rudi on Jan 18, 2011 10:45:07 GMT
I would pour a few drops of gas in the carb (lift off the air filter) and see if it runs again just to be sure. If you continue to pour a few drops, the engine should idle a few seconds at least.
Another idea is to take out the idle jet and use a put thin metal thread (from an old gas cable) through it just to be sure it isnt clogged.
My sprint used to be very stubborn in the beginning, after lots of head aches, I saw that the carb float had some shim in it - some one must of thought it would fix something.... Sort that out and it started right away. So, try inspecting the float to see if it looks ok, gas in the chamber is not enough.
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Post by jaz on Jan 18, 2011 13:39:09 GMT
Hi Rudi, the idle jet looks fine, I cut a strand from a wire brush and did what you suggested yesterday. I also had a look in the float chamber, I cleaned the little filter at the top and had a look at the float. It looked OK and seemed to work fine as far as I could tell. However I tried putting a bit of fuel straight down the carb as you suggested and still nothing. I also noticed that the fuel mist from the carburettor is spraying upwards rather than bring sucked into the chamber. I'm wondering now if the carburettor is OK but the timing has slipped out to such an extent that there's no possibility of it running? That said I'm not sure how that could happen, unless the flywheel woodruff key has sheared off  I'm starting to get a bad feeling about this... |
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Post by bryno on Jan 18, 2011 15:35:33 GMT
Hmm, could well be the flynut was not tight enough and the fly has slipped on the crank and bent or snapped the woody, worth checking now by whipping the flywheel off, if you keep kicking it over could do more damage to the keyway...
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Post by jaz on Jan 18, 2011 17:21:47 GMT
...if you keep kicking it over could do more damage to the keyway... Noted. I'll get it off and have a look. I'm just looking at the Haynes manual and it says to "bridge the magnets with soft iron to prevent loss of magnetism" once the flywheel is off. I haven't seen this mentioned on Scooterhelp or any of the other guides I've read, not sure what exactly they mean by that? |
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Post by bryno on Jan 19, 2011 12:59:12 GMT
Think that means stick a few spannas across the magnets when you remove it  I would not worry about that unless you are planning to leave the flywheel off for a very long time, it won't lose magnetism rapidly. If you take an engine apart best to stick the stator back in the flywheel when storing it.. |
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Post by jaz on Jan 19, 2011 16:44:37 GMT
Think that means stick a few spannas across the magnets when you remove it Ah, I think I was looking to make that more complicated than it actually was ;D Anyway, the timing's not the problem because the woodruff key is intact... not sure what to try now |
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Post by bryno on Jan 19, 2011 18:05:41 GMT
That's good news anyway, that crank will be fine..
Have you been trying starting it on choke? only other issue I can think of as a result in it standing is the seals gone which can happen as they go hard over time, then when you start it up the crank rips them.
Fly side gone would result in taking in air, if that is the case it would probably still run if you were compensating by running it on choke, if clutch side, you will see fuel in your gear oil, and gear oil in your fuel mix, so it will run very rough and smokey..
Worth just dropping some of the oil, see if it has fuel in it?
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Post by Rudi on Jan 20, 2011 7:43:03 GMT
Maybe its worth exchanging carb with the Sportique.
That is if the Sportique carb can fit in a Sprint. Likely to fit I think, same engine displacement too.
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Post by jaz on Jan 20, 2011 16:24:17 GMT
Maybe its worth exchanging carb with the Sportique My other Vespa is actually a 152L2 & the carb's different. Shame because I've got about 4 of those |
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Post by Rudi on Jan 20, 2011 17:11:58 GMT
How many is too many?  |
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Post by jaz on Jan 20, 2011 18:11:25 GMT
How many is too many? Four carburettors Rudi - not 152L2s LOL That said I am now in double figures overall, I just can't turn a hopeless cause away Five are running and legal though, I don't think that's too bad an average ;D I'm going to drain the gearbox oil tomorrow, let's see if that tells us anything... One more thing... in all my books I can't find a torque setting for the flywheel nut? |
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Post by bryno on Jan 21, 2011 11:52:42 GMT
Carb off any rotary valve motor would fit the stud spacings are all the same, 20/20 ideal..
Blimey, how many projects?? no wonder the poor old Douglas hasn't had a look in!
Torque wise, I've always done them up by 'feel' on all my scoots, as much as anything as I don't trust the accuracy of torque wrenches (even my calibrated one with a certificate is 10 ft/lbs out!)..
Have you looked in the manuals on Scooterhelp.com?
Not in the old Haynes manual?
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Post by jaz on Jan 21, 2011 14:20:50 GMT
Have you looked in the manuals on Scooterhelp.com? Not in the old Haynes manual? Nope, tried those. Even had a look in the Douglas manual for the 152L2 but nothing there either. Anyway... I just tightened up the flywheel, turned the petrol on and gave it a couple of kicks and the little b*****d started! When I rang my MOT man to postpone he'd told me that when he had 2-strokes that refused to start he reckoned it was often down to flooding and he'd leave the plug out overnight. I did it, more out of desperation than anything. I'm not saying that was the answer, but probably worth mentioning all the same...or maybe there was a last bit of crust in some dark recess of the carb that was finally dislodged - I haven't a clue! Bloody old Vespas ;D Thanks for all the suggestions guys, now I just have the problem of the lights to rectify. |
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Post by bryno on Jan 21, 2011 16:08:14 GMT
fantastic!
yes, could have been flooded, another issue I get if I leave the scoot for weeks is petrol evaporating leaving the carb full of 2 stroke oil, so it takes a while to flush the oil through before the engine getc nice fresh fuel it can actually burn.
It's a particular problem on the GS, sensible to run the scoot with fuel off till the carbs empty of you are laying up for a while and always give it a good shake before starting up to get the 2 stroke nicely mixed again..
Electrics? Ughhhh!
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Post by jaz on Jan 21, 2011 16:43:21 GMT
It's surprisingly good for something that was wired up by Italians 45 years ago The horn just clicked, so I took it off and gave it a thwack with a rubber mallet - sorted. The only problem now is the side/tail light circuit. All you get is the dimmest of dim glows - the filament just about turns red - from these two when switched on. Not that there's a general lack of electricity or anything - dip beam, main beam and the brake light all work just fine. It is a bit of a raggy old thing but I reckon that's all that's keeping it from getting an MOT  |
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Post by bryno on Jan 24, 2011 13:27:26 GMT
I would hazzard that the side light live comes from the same as the main lights, and if the rear main light is ok, the issue is more likely the bulb/earth to the front side light, or poor contacts on the switch?
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Post by jaz on Jan 24, 2011 21:05:36 GMT
I would hazzard that the side light live comes from the same as the main lights, and if the rear main light is ok, the issue is more likely the bulb/earth to the front side light, or poor contacts on the switch? It's both the side and tail lights that are dim. Brake light, head (dip and main) and horn all work fine. I've checked the earth on the sidelight and it's OK. I need to get the tail light off and have a look at the black wire that runs from that to the front. There's only about six wires in the whole thing though, so it shouldn't be that hard - famous last words |
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Post by bryno on Jan 26, 2011 15:12:47 GMT
Quite, in the words of Clarkson - how hard can it be?
Sounds like iffy earth to back light unit. On Vespas I've run an extra wire from the engine coil mount to the frame/back light mounting stud to ensure good earth.
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Post by jaz on Feb 1, 2011 15:49:31 GMT
Sounds like iffy earth to back light unit. On Vespas I've run an extra wire from the engine coil mount to the frame/back light mounting stud to ensure good earth. How hard can it be? Too hard ;D I've made up an extra earth as described, checked for a short in the tail-light and even run a separate wire straight from the yellow terminal in the junction box to the light but nothing. All you get is a dim, dim glow from the side and tail light bulbs. The filament just about manages to turn red. The only possibly interesting thing I learned from today's brick wall head-banging session is this: if you remove the sidelight bulb the rear one stays dim. However, removing the tail light bulb makes the sidelight bulb light up normally. It's trying to tell me something, I'm just not sure what... I've tried a new tail light bulb as well just in case - no difference. I'm fast reaching the conclusion that I'm rubbish at Vespas LOL [Forgot to say - I've been round all the connectors and cleaned everything, including the handlebar switch. TBH it all looked in pretty good shape anyway...] |
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Post by bryno on Feb 2, 2011 15:40:21 GMT
Still sounds like a short in the tail light jaz if you remove the tail and it all works fine.
Try taking the connector off the back of the tail light, remove the bulb and hold the connector against one side of the bulb, other to earth (you need a few hands for that!)
If bulb is bright, you have a short to earth in the tail light unit itself.
If it's still dim, you have a short in the wiring from the front of the scoot back to the tail light, you can eliminate this by trying a new wire from the headlight connector or switch back to the tail light, IIRC its the black one which goes to tail..
Worth also unscrewing the switch from the bars, as you will know there is little space in the headset and it's easy for a wire to come out, short on the headset or another wire as you screw the switch down..
Happy days!
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Post by scooterwarehouse on Feb 8, 2011 7:24:09 GMT
Think you'll find the Side light and Tail light on the 152L2 came off the Battery.In the 60's the Side light position on the switch was actually a night parking light which was required by law.Most Mot stations will not bother about a side light.As long as you have a headlight with dip and beam that should be ok
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Post by jaz on Feb 8, 2011 16:20:58 GMT
Think you'll find the Side light and Tail light on the 152L2 came off the Battery.In the 60's the Side light position on the switch was actually a night parking light which was required by law.Most Mot stations will not bother about a side light.As long as you have a headlight with dip and beam that should be ok It's my Sprint that's the problem, but it's sorted now anyway ;D In my defence first let me say that I'm from the world of 12V electrical systems, so I didn't bat an eyelid when I looked at the tail light bulb and saw that it was 15W. It was only when I looked at the manual today that I saw that it should actually be 5W New bulb bought, job done. Thanks for all the replies, as ever. Hopefully now it's time for the MOT! |
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Post by bryno on Feb 8, 2011 17:04:32 GMT
Ya clown ;D
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Post by jaz on Feb 8, 2011 20:34:06 GMT
Good, aren't I? On a point of honour, though, I would like to point out that the previous owner installed the offending bulb LOL. Rest assured he'll be getting some stick next time I see him ;D |
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Post by bryno on Feb 9, 2011 18:08:32 GMT
Yes, I must admit I've often found 12v bulbs on scoots i've bought, so much easier than going to the trouble of tracking down the correct 6v |
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Post by jaz on Feb 15, 2011 12:13:12 GMT
And just to round the thread off nicely... it passed the MOT this morning! Now I just need the cover note to arrive so that I can claim my free tax disc and finally venture out onto the Queen's highway ;D ;D ;D
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Anyway...
