t5 not running right

[griff]

Alright to everybody please help before i cry... bought a 1994 t5 125 wth pollini 152 and some after sales exhaust two weeks ago, looks great but..., seemed to run ok on test but did nt open her up, after couple of days i realised she was only hitting 45mph,told she should do 60 -65ish - , opened the haynes maze! manual and decided to clean the air filter as suggested and replace plug,got 55mph for 1 night only then back to 40ish again, noticed choke was sticking on so sorted that,thought problem solved, but even worse as she would not tick over(just died) soon as revs dropped she cut out (ridden or standing)plug getting wet,worse still, she would nt start at all next morning,took her to a local lambretta/vespa builder who said spark was arking in a couple of places,says he solved that but he then told me it was still not firing or ticking over suggested he changed a seal around i think he said the crank housing as it could be losing pressure,something to do with how 2 stroke worked etc, he did that,but yes still the same -- we are on the topic of engine strip down for £300 and parts at approx £50.00 scoot probably needs it at 18k but may have been done 2k ago not sure...i have already paid £1400 for the scoot plus £150 for the above non diagnosis,what worries me is that tonight i have read various forums and everything seems to point to the carb,yet the guy has not to my knowledge mentioned the carb,the gargage has a good rep but i am going to be at £500 soon, has any body got any pointers for me, ie similar probs etc or questions i should be asking the garage,not sayin he's havin me pants down but the non carb detail does worry me,ps bang goes the bleedin re spray in winter. help&thanks

Gutted Griff

[mickey movistar]

hiya griff

problem is mate it could be as simple as the jets in your carb need a clean (2 min job)
or seal problems
its awkward to tell with out seeing it in the flesh

you have to eliminate the easy problems first before spending the cash

is the carb tight no air leaks getting in
are your electronics ok
is your timing right


have you checked there is a spark at the plug when kick it it over

the best thing to do mate is speak to people that are local to you (where are you by the way)
surely you must know local scooterists
they would be only too pleased to help probs

bully

[griff]

Cheers bully for the reply, I'm in Warrington mate(near Manchester).According to the garage it's in, he said it's got a strong spark.again I looked at carb and everything seemed tight seal looked good etc. When putting it into the garage, I would have presumed like you say he would check all the small things ie jets etc, he may have done, and your pointers are what I need to ask him tonight,I may be at the point of the strip down I'm not sure,I just need the leads for the questions to ask before I spend the cash mate.As I'm new to the scoot world I'm not in the circle of scoot people,hence joining this site.if anybody is local who I can pick your knowledge please get in touch.
Once again mate,thanks for the info and I will keep you posted.

Griff

[griff]

Hiya bully, & all, to keep you all updated, this could be interesting to the pureist!!! not sure where to start as its a nightmare... mechanic has tried all the usual small things, no joy as still not starting,engine has been stripped completely now, has new seals gaskets,cables new gear shaft? crucifix? piston head, and still not starting, costing me a s##t load of money. crank case inside had score marks which were repaired with a special weld etc but nothing... now onto precision engineering the inside of the case then building back to the correct dimensions? cant find a second hand or new casing anywhere,ps its a classic t5 1994,has anybody got any suggestions as im looking at nothing at the moment.. ps good spark/compression etc,but fuel not getting to plug hence mechanic is convinced it is this crank / engine casing, causing it to fire at the wrong point - carb is A ok as well,been told that the inside of crank case etc is vital to be tip top on the t5. does any body have or know any alternatives/sellers of this part,obviously matching pair.

Help & thanks for y time for reading.

Griff

[ets]

Hello Griff
I am rather sorry I came so late, things may have benn sorted before you'd opened the case.
Anyway, not sure what you meant by scores in the casing . Are they on the valve?
unless it is something rather bad it shouldnt compromise normal activity of the engine.

It sounds to me tho you have a stator problem, it is worth to get it cheched, it is in fact so easy you can do it yourself with a tester to find out it is working correctly. You only need to check resistance between wires coming our your stator, while disconnected.

between red and white (pick up) 110 + or - 5 ohm
between white and green 500 + or - 20 ohm

If you find values are different that could be your ignition faults. They can limit speed and create all sorts of problems to look like it's something else. That's how you can go mad looking into carbs and oilseals.
It is such an easy test to do I now do it always before trying anything else. You'll be surprised.

In fact that may explay why it fires off at the wrong moment I suppose.
I never heard of a casing causing to spark incorrectly, it has to be the either the flywheel or stator! And since the flywheel on a T5 is fixed the circle is getting tighter...

Right, tho you now have a pair of cases, I really doubt you need another pair, there's always something you can do to repair/restore a case.
Please, post some pics to see what's going on.

[griff]

Thanks for the info mate, really do appreciate the advice on this.

The guy who is doing this repair did say at first that the stator was not in the best condition, but has been headed of at the pass!!! i think by some expert vespa guy who said that if the crank casing had any damage inside this could cause probs,especially on a t5, basically there is slight damage inside the case near to the ports, i have invested in another stator now,which i wanted to do any way as the eye holes where the wires are soldered had worn away, plus judging the condition of some of the insides of the scoot i dare say this is original and sh11ged anyway. Will get this on in the next day or two, hope you are right as this is doing my tree in......although not much sun up here,i seem to find somebody going past me or who owns a bloody scooter! every day.......

thanks again and i will keep y posted.

Griff

[ets]

No way then,
scores in the ports area would not compromise a running engine, the only (only I repeat) damage causing problems would be deep scores on the valve, see the picture below, it is off a smallframe but the same principle applies to a T5. Which... runs exactly the same as any other motor by the way.

[griff]

hi Mate,

Sorry but photo is not appearing when i click on icon, i am really at the end of my patience with it, as this guy is saying its this damage around the port, he,s saying that there is no pressure to throw the fuel up to the spark,basically as the crank goes passed the port because of the wear on the slight raise it is still slightly open? i think he is clutching at straws, i am at £450 for labour only(paid)i know before you say it,should not of put any up front, plus all the parts... i am at the point of dragging it out of the place and standing it for a while, as his advice is to ali weld and re engineer around this port,. should i drag it and go some where else i am not sure.

Gutted

[ets]

Sorry for the picture, I took it off a site you have to be logged in to see it. Now I've changed the link and it should be visible.

By the way, if the damage is like the one in the picture your mechanic is right and you can weld and rework it to make it good again. But only in that case. If it is anywhere else there is no need. Ask him to show you the damage and take a pict. I'll be able to say if he's taking you for a ride but by the sound of your description he may be right. Sorry.

p.s. where about in the country are you.

[griff]

Hi Mate, thanks for your time and effort, the scores are in a similar place,but from what i remember (4 weeks ago) they are nowhere near as bad as the pics you've shown, the scoot is back together at the mo,but if i can get my hands on a pic i will post on the board. i have had a tip that a new cdi may be worth a shot so i've bought one as ther cheapish, the plus side to all this will be a virtualy new bloody scoot at the end but finding it hard to see that positive at the moment, due to amount of time the guy is taking.... p.s i'm in Warrington inbetween manchester/liverpool.

Thanks again, griff

[joey]

Where have you took the scoot to? Is he a proper scoot mechanic?

[paddedjohn]

If you're having trouble finding a decent scoot mechanic you could do a lot worse than travelling to Ellesmere Port to Turners.

[joey]

One can only presume you mean Barry's?

[paddedjohn]

Joey, does that mean its not a good idea to go there?

[ets]

Long time ago I stopped trusting mechanics and I invested in tools, a bit of patience and a box of vinyl gloves. It cost less than ONE rebuild at any professional and I can do anything on my engines since.
If I get stuck on something needing welding I use the local rebore for a handfull of quid.

It may seem fiddly the first time but a couple of engines down the line everything falls into place and if you get stuck on something you can use the most powerful of the tool available (internet) to ask other people. Rebuilding a Vespa engne is really simple.

I always urge everyone to try!

[joey]

I fully echo what ETS says, have a go and if you get stuck you've always got us bunch of muppets to fall back on for help and advice, however if you're not confident in what you're doing then find someone who is.
As for the "Turners" recommendation there are 2 "Turners" in more or less the same area "Turners of Merseyside," formerly "Len Turners" and "Scooterwarehouse," run by a top bloke Barry Turner.
If you need your scoot looked at then I'd personally take it to Barry out of the two.
I f you do decide to have a go yourself then my advice is take pictures of EVERYTHING as you are stripping/checking so you know that it's going back exactly as it should (especially true of wiring,) plus you have the opportunity of posting the pics on here should anything not look right.
As for your initial fault, as has already been stated it could be a number of things, seals, blocked jets/drillings incorrect replacement carb (you should have an SI 24/24G on a T5,) or just that the kit you've got is new and still requires running in. It may even be something as simple as an incorrecly gapped plug.
A bit more info is needed to help us suss out what the problem is and then we can give you a few things to check before you start spending anymore sheckles..........
What jetting have you got? Idle, Air corrector, atomiser and main.
What plug are you using and what's your gap?
How many miles has the kit done?
What pipe are you running?
The more detail you can give the better the chance we can advise.

[griff]

Sorry Lads, finally got the thing on the road, found a quick test for the casing port prob, tipping oil into the carb and seeing if its stays or goes, guess what, yep it stayed so no prob there,had a tip from a local scooterboy who suggested cdi, no joy so mechanic changed ht lead plug magneto fly and cdi,kicked over 1st bloody time, worked it back and it was the magneto fly,bought a new one and i am running it in at 30 with the new piston,christ this is nearly as frustrating as it being in the garage.....i going to be a cheeky git here but ... can anyone suggest a good exhaust for it, ithink it has a leo vinci or somethin like it on,but it looks a day older than god, PM tuninig seem to do a good advertisement on one putting 10-12 mph on top end and 20-25% on bottom end, more money but i'm hooked on getting this thing bang on engine wise,body can wait for 12 months,ps it has 152 pollini and a24/24 carb,thanks again to all your help,you have kept my faith, i will also take your advice and start investing in some tools as i think i am half way there in understanding if not pratical,ps the scoot was in zoot scoot.

Cheers to you all, owe you a pint.

griff

[joey]

I'd stick with the Sito kid.
The Polini kit is a grunter so the PM won't really suit it as most PM pipes are revvy as f**k so the Sito is a good option.
Now if you were to go Malossi...............................

[ets]

Malossi is for maries... ;D ehehh, I'd stick with Polini!
It is a grunter and with gutts to sell!
I've tried with all condiments available and I got quite a few mph out of it.
My favourite exhaust was indeed the Sito+ but the noise was more than you ought. Similar (but not as good) performance with Simonini. All other expansions I've tried took so much torque out of it it was silly.

Soo, if you stick with the polini, I'd also go for a 22 teeth clutch (7 springs is best) and strange enough a properly set PX carb will give the engine great smoothness and make it rev higher, using the old T5 filter that is.. Believe you me, I wasted so much time on that engine my wife nearly chucked me out the house.
Cool enough, when I got it perfect I sold it to the luckiest guy on earth and decided to start all over again with a 200 engine, the one in my avatar.... but this is another story...

[sirscootalot]

made up for ya griff, back on the road and the sun's shining, 30mph, didn't know T5 went that slow ;D you can't go wrong with a sito + the only annoying thing with them is they spray any oil and crap over your back wheel

[griff]

Sito Plus it is lads, at 30mph it wont matter that much with the oil.....roll on another week, are they loud as mine at the moment turns heads in the distance, liked it at first but y can see the look on peoples faces 400yards in the distance saying what the f*** is this coming up the road..

Once again - thanks

May see y soon in prescot met a bloke who rides out with yous.....

[sirscootalot]

you'd be very welcome in prescot griff, i live in eccles and pass through warrington all the time, so could always meet ya somewhere
greg

[griff]

Thanks for the offer mate, will be certain to leave a post when i have the thing running right, thought everthing was ok but gave up on me again,for some reason the low tension coil? was knackered on the new stator,reading open? all the time, plus the trigger unit was rubbing on the fly, so waiting for another stator to replace,why this has happened i have no bleedin clue,but me and the mechanic reckon the bugger is haunted!!!!
If anybody has a reason other than a dodgy stator please give us a shout.
Cheers
Griff