del
1st Class Ticket
Still riding a 125. 200 still on bench.
Posts: 82 
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Post by del on Nov 12, 2018 11:58:02 GMT
Hello.
I have looked through the Forum but could only find AC to DC conversion. I have a 2012 PX125E. I removed the starter and ran for a while without a battery. (I know the horn croaks).
I asked was it ok to run like this and was advised the battery stops the regulator killing itself.
so can I fit an AC regulator and AC horn and lose the battery?
Cheers Del
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Post by citydaz on Nov 12, 2018 17:19:59 GMT
why would you want to do that?
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Post by ironsloth on Nov 12, 2018 19:17:56 GMT
Got to agree with daz, I don't see the point to be honest. But it's best for one of the others to comment, they may have tried it.
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Post by hedgeling106 on Nov 12, 2018 22:43:48 GMT
Acdc rock, not sure u can get dc strators were 6v once on old scoots, but think they were ac? P range didnt have battery or some at least, 6v too?, but dimming lights at junctions especially on 6vs led to batterys or was everybody wanting car stereos and speakers in the glovebox so they could play poison ivy really loud in the youth club carpark, while posing in staypress parkers and porkpie hats. My 90 had 6v and no battery, if u had a flat in dark u were screwed
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del
1st Class Ticket
Still riding a 125. 200 still on bench.
Posts: 82
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Post by del on Nov 13, 2018 9:05:39 GMT
Hello .
Daz. I junked the starter motor so I now lug an expensive, acid leaking lump of lead just to make the horn work. I recently fitted a DR kit so the starter ring is now on the bench. No going back now.
Hedge. I have no desire to play loud music in a car park, neither wil I plug in a Kirby trouser press. The lights run off an AC circuit separate to the battery so I’m still screwed when I have a flat in the dark.
Universe. Can I fit an AC regulator and lose the battery please?
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Post by hedgeling106 on Nov 13, 2018 10:00:36 GMT
Do side lights not work off batterry?,
You sure head lights are ac? And do not work on power feed from regulator, should be relay too
Regulator turns 3 phase ac, from 3 coils on stator plate to dc by passing through one way diodes, but headlights only work when running to stop battery being excessively drained, but if you used jumper cables on headlights would work on dc batterry, maybe wrong? Pretty sure u can just use regulator with out battery?
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Post by hedgeling106 on Nov 13, 2018 10:24:27 GMT
Post a link to your wiring diagram and ill look at it, im a bit confused. No ac regulators, they only convert ac to dc.
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Post by hedgeling106 on Nov 13, 2018 12:41:51 GMT
5 pin regulators, six pin regulators, how many wires go to your regulator, still confused.
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Post by citydaz on Nov 13, 2018 17:35:52 GMT
Hello . Daz. I junked the starter motor so I now lug an expensive, acid leaking lump of lead just to make the horn work. I recently fitted a DR kit so the starter ring is now on the bench. No going back now. Hi, wasnt trying to be funny - just curious, as i recently put up a post about adding a battery to power my indicators using leds, (and also horn), as this would make the lights brighter when you are braking and turning with the lights on. ive always thought that having a heavy battery would at least offer some ballast to improve balance and handling? |
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del
1st Class Ticket
Still riding a 125. 200 still on bench.
Posts: 82
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Post by del on Nov 13, 2018 18:29:49 GMT
Hello.
I removed the Starter motor as I thought it’s something else to go wrong. I disconnected the battery as well. Everything works normally apart from the horn. Someone told me that’s because the regulator has both AC and DC outputs. The DC section feeds the Battery, Starter Motor via a relay and the horn. With the battery disconnected the horn croaks.
I ran fine with this for a few months but recently someone else told me the regulator will die eventually as the battery holds part of circuit at 12V above earth. I assume fitting a large capacitor would do the same if no load is present.
My wiring diagram is the absolute worst one in the Haynes manual. I’m concerned that simply fitting an AC only regulator might send the stator plate back to China for scrap.
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Post by ironsloth on Nov 13, 2018 18:41:10 GMT
Why do I now have the urge to fit a Corby trouser press to the scoot? Thanks for that del... 😂
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Post by ironsloth on Nov 13, 2018 18:44:29 GMT
To be honest, I ran my scoot for years day in day out, with only the battery on for the horn. Mine runs a Malossi with the electric start long gone, different flywheel, no starter etc. Couldn't be bothered to take the battery off, as I didn't want the horn to sound like a slowly squeezed duck with asthma. Ran with no problems.
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del
1st Class Ticket
Still riding a 125. 200 still on bench.
Posts: 82
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Post by del on Nov 13, 2018 19:22:02 GMT
Hello Ironsloth.
I thought I could use the battery compartment to carry a decent toolkit and just keep a couple of boxspanners for sparkplug and wheel changing in the glovebox.
I dont need the battery as the record player idea was useless. The needle jumped as soon as I started the engine.
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Post by scooterg on Nov 13, 2018 19:58:52 GMT
Needle only jumped because you used the kickstart
Should only be used in conjunction with an electric start ,
so you should have thought ahead,And not removed it
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Post by hedgeling106 on Nov 13, 2018 20:09:14 GMT
Wouldn't it be easier to use 5 pin regulator and run on dc only? or buy skinny lithium battery or spot weld some laptop batteries in a row for 12v, though youd probably need battery protection circuit to stop you setting your backside on fire.
whats the advantage of ac over dc del,
Do cdi and coils come in ac and dc?
made me laugh too. im sure some mod has added a trouser press among the mirrors somewhere and disguised it as leopard print back rest, with a wippy ariel and obligitatary foxtail.
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Post by scooterg on Nov 13, 2018 20:31:43 GMT
If you want a foxtail Do NOT search for it in eBay 😲😲😲
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Post by phattanglo on Nov 13, 2018 21:20:30 GMT
I recently posted asking about the opposite mod a/c to completely d/c as I also have 2012 125.
Looking at the available info on the web I felt that the easiest way to get good stable electricity was to use the standard stator/rotor but modify it to full wave and use a full full wave rectifier.
A Gilera runner rectifier works apparently.
It seems it can run batteryless but even a little burglar alarm battery will make it more stable.
It sounds like a good thing if youre looking to uprate your lighting.
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del
1st Class Ticket
Still riding a 125. 200 still on bench.
Posts: 82
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Post by del on Nov 14, 2018 12:01:16 GMT
Hello.
Coming back to this forum sober, I can see where the confusion might be.
The stator can only produce AC current. (To produce DC it would require a commutator which would be ridiculous).
The regulator which I cant open I assume has a full wave rectifier followed by a voltage regulator. Because the horn quacks when the battery is disconnected and someone told me it’s because the regulator is an AC type, I took it for granted. I remember from my college days, the tutor explained how an AC regulator works and it was the type I had on my Lambretta so I was very interested. This was a special transformer where the coils were wound back to back and output current drawn would force the magnetic field to oppose the one which had current from the stator flowing through it.
Perhaps the regulators are DC output but the circuit needs a DC source on the output side to work correctly whereas the battery less ones don’t.
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del
1st Class Ticket
Still riding a 125. 200 still on bench.
Posts: 82
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Post by del on Nov 14, 2018 12:14:31 GMT
Hello Phattanglo.
I saw that post about Full wave conversion. Next time I have the flywheel off I’ll check how the things wired up already.
You and I have the same wiring diagram. Every time I want to find anything. I have to blow it up on the photocopier and draw the circuit out on a separate piece of paper noting every pointless terminal and wire colour change.
Thank you for the tip about the No:8 throttle slide. That was another problem solved.
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Post by phattanglo on Nov 14, 2018 13:20:05 GMT
No probs del, it does make a difference doesn't it
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del
1st Class Ticket
Still riding a 125. 200 still on bench.
Posts: 82
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Post by del on Nov 15, 2018 0:06:43 GMT
No probs del, it does make a difference doesn't it Yes it does 100% improvement. My scooter would run fine if I rode short journeys. If I dont spare the lash I stall when I pull away every time. My worry was I was running lean and it was only when the engines hot does it come out the shadows to haunt me. now sorted since I changed the throttle slide. I’m still learning and realised the learning curve is straight up. It would be so useful if this forum had a place to put definite improvements which were verified by several people on it. I must admit though If I had thought about how to phrase my questionin the first place. The confusion I caused could have been avoided and my question answered without wasting everyone’s time. |
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Post by phattanglo on Nov 15, 2018 7:32:28 GMT
No such thing as a daft question if it gets the answer you need.
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Post by mijapxman on Nov 15, 2018 13:31:24 GMT
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Post by mijapxman on Nov 15, 2018 13:51:30 GMT
I recently posted asking about the opposite mod a/c to completely d/c as I also have 2012 125. Looking at the available info on the web I felt that the easiest way to get good stable electricity was to use the standard stator/rotor but modify it to full wave and use a full full wave rectifier. A Gilera runner rectifier works apparently. It seems it can run batteryless but even a little burglar alarm battery will make it more stable. It sounds like a good thing if youre looking to uprate your lighting. Is this what your refering to, Bud? 👇 modernvespa.com/forum/topic108185.2Mij☺ |
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del
1st Class Ticket
Still riding a 125. 200 still on bench.
Posts: 82
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Post by del on Nov 15, 2018 17:44:55 GMT
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Post by hedgeling106 on Nov 15, 2018 18:17:37 GMT
So early p range had 5 pin regs with no battery, was this an unstable system, then moved to six pin regulators, with one pin supplying AC for lights and had battery. Why, are AC lights brighter?
I thought Strators would have 3 coils due to three feed wires to regulators, but some have 5 coils, and even 6. Why?
Is CDI and coil AC or DC? Must be DC on early p range?
I cut of my battery spare wheel holder off cutdown EFL frame to fit ammo box under sidepanel to hold tools,as no glove box.i was just planning on running 3 pin reg,but may have to rethink after this thread.
Would led headlight upgrades work on AC system
The et4 I'm working on has 5pin reg, battery, side lights too, all DC I guess. Though still stuck with immobilizer with no transponder. Was somebody on forum saying can be bypassed but I don't know how.
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Post by phattanglo on Nov 17, 2018 8:48:47 GMT
I recently posted asking about the opposite mod a/c to completely d/c as I also have 2012 125. Looking at the available info on the web I felt that the easiest way to get good stable electricity was to use the standard stator/rotor but modify it to full wave and use a full full wave rectifier. A Gilera runner rectifier works apparently. It seems it can run batteryless but even a little burglar alarm battery will make it more stable. It sounds like a good thing if youre looking to uprate your lighting. Is this what your refering to, Bud? 👇 modernvespa.com/forum/topic108185.2Mij☺ That's the one Jim. Also the rectifier made by Wassell that the classic bike chaps use will take care of the full wave AC to DC conversion |
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del
1st Class Ticket
Still riding a 125. 200 still on bench.
Posts: 82
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Post by del on Apr 2, 2019 18:19:56 GMT
Hello. Update in case there’s another person as mad as me.
I fitted a 4 pin AC regulator. I replaced the horn with an AC one. I connected the horn one side to the button and the other I used a short length of wire with push connectors to go from the horn to the grey wire which was on the starter interlock relay.
The lights and indicators all work fine. The only thing is the horn sound like something off a clown car.
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3narf
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 49
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Post by 3narf on Apr 22, 2019 21:16:20 GMT
Vespa ac system is great! Who needs a heavy battery or a bloody starter motor? On a 2 stroke? 😄 Add lightness and simplicate
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del
1st Class Ticket
Still riding a 125. 200 still on bench.
Posts: 82
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Post by del on Apr 24, 2019 15:24:41 GMT
Vespa ac system is great! Who needs a heavy battery or a bloody starter motor? On a 2 stroke? 😄 Add lightness and simplicate Indeed mate. I could probably lighten the scooter by 1lb if i remove the redundant wiring. It's a 125. why electric start? |
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