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Post by doulsy on Jan 3, 2016 17:02:39 GMT
I have read on various websites that the gap should be between 0.2mm and 0.4mm, i have just put a ring in the barrel and the gap is 0.8, took a ring of my old piston and that is also 0.8, i bought this barrel second hand from ebay so is it a new barrel or over sized rings? If rings what size?
Also, will the cdi from my px125 engine work on the p200e engine?
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Post by pxguru on Jan 4, 2016 7:46:50 GMT
Are you measuring the ring gap at the top of the barrel? 0.8 is still ok but when if it is new it should be more like 0.4. has this barrel been run before?
CDI is the same.
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Post by henri on Jan 4, 2016 9:18:26 GMT
as guru says , push ring with piston crown about a inch down barrel to measure .if rings were over-sized the gap would be smaller or none existent not bigger .doesnt sound like gaps big enuff to be standard rings in re-bored barrel ,that would be more like 2mm . as the service limit for rings/barrels is 2mm gap a .8 is well usable ,the .2-.4 is really a bare minimum spec so that ring ends dont bind on each other in use . H
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Post by doulsy on Jan 4, 2016 11:56:33 GMT
Forgot to mention it was a second hand cylinder, i pushed the rings down near bottom,,halfway and at the top and the gap was still 0.8 ish, so this is still usable?
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Post by pxguru on Jan 4, 2016 12:18:54 GMT
0.8mm is perfectly ok to use but if this barrel is not so worn it could be 1st oversize. If new standard rings are giving a 0.8mm end gap then 1st over size rings will be approx 0.2mm end gap in the same barrel. How does the 66.5mm piston feel in the bore? Can you measure the piston to bore clearance?
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Post by doulsy on Jan 4, 2016 12:31:36 GMT
0.8mm is perfectly ok to use but if this barrel is not so worn it could be 1st oversize. If new standard rings are giving a 0.8mm end gap then 1st over size rings will be approx 0.2mm end gap in the same barrel. How does the 66.5mm piston feel in the bore? Can you measure the piston to bore clearance? How would i measure this? Would i need fit piston then push the barrel on? |
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Post by pxguru on Jan 4, 2016 12:44:32 GMT
for a rough measurement, just slip the piston in the barrel without rings and ram a feeler gauge down the side from the piston crown with the piston near the top.
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Post by doulsy on Jan 4, 2016 13:17:38 GMT
0.5?
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Post by doulsy on Jan 4, 2016 13:22:15 GMT
Thats the gap at one end with the other end against the barrel, thats 0.50 and not 0.05
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Post by henri on Jan 4, 2016 15:29:08 GMT
for accurate readings you really need 3 feeler gauges equally spaced around the piston ,just checked my manual an it says minimum is.215mm .an fromjust bore an piston sizes that .5 sounds way too large .like a stock piston in a first size overbore ,stock bore is 66.5 an piston is 66.292 giving a .208 nominal clearance ,as in .104 all round . 1st over is 66.7 so a stock piston would be .408 smaller ,or 2nd overs 66.9 giving a .608 difference .only proper way is to measure the bore at a point 30mm down from head gasket face .
just to be clear is your .5 in mill or thous . H
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Post by pxguru on Jan 4, 2016 15:49:38 GMT
Even from the rough single feeler gauge measurment it looks like the barrel you have is either really worn out or 1st oversize. With 0.5mm clearance its going to sound like a diesel! Measure the top of the barrel with a Vernier gauge and check it. 1st oversize is 66.70mm If you do need a 1st oversize piston you should think about one of these - www.beedspeed.com/vespa-piston-p200eefldiscrally-competition-p-10977.html?osCsid=edvri7fslpjumdcpn7jjhkvpe5Only 3 quid more than an orignal piston from Beedys and is better than the orignal in every way  |
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Post by ianmartin40 on Jan 4, 2016 16:15:46 GMT
What size is the 2nd hand piston that came with barrel?
if you need vernier caliper to measure then I have a set you can borrow
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Post by doulsy on Jan 4, 2016 18:40:26 GMT
0.5 mm Henri, they are metric feelers Guru, thats piston looks ok but i have all ready put the new piston on the crank and threw away the packaging so i have emailed beedspeed for a price of a barrel, doubt they would take it back without packaging Ian i never got the piston with the second hand barrel and yes i would like to borrow the vernier caliper thingys just incase someone wants to use that barrel, this has been some amount of faffing about and thought i was almost there, still i have came along way considering the engines history and the fact this is the first time i have done anything like this, i should have bought all parts new as i had planned to do and done more research rather than just watching the sausage dvd , just hope the bloody thing goes after all this  will see what beedspeed say about barrel as they only list kits. |
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Post by pxguru on Jan 5, 2016 5:32:03 GMT
If Beedspeed will take the piston back and swap it for a barrel, then this is the way to go. The same piston kit is supplied with this rebored original barrel. www.beedspeed.com/vespa-cylinder-210cc-p200rally-performance-iron-p-12767.htmlIf your ebay barrel does measure 66.7, then they may swap your new piston for the oversize piston. The standard 66.5 piston that you have is no use you unless you have another barrel. This kind of thing is always faffing about, that's the fun part! |
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Post by sime66 on Jan 5, 2016 16:20:49 GMT
Don't lose heart, Doulsy - take a look back at the photos of it when it was full of mud and wildlife; you are nearly there - but that doesn't mean you have to finish it in a weekend!  |
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Post by doulsy on Jan 5, 2016 20:10:15 GMT
spoke to beedspeed today and they are sending out a new barrel, should have it on thursday, so i might be ready for the weekend Sime no seriously im not in any great rush im just a tad keen because im so close and i have all ready removed that old lml pile from my scooter, gonna be some buzz if it runs, its not just the engine, its the whole scooter me and my brother had to drag up the stairs from a back garden that had been there almost 30 year, 8 month to get a log book, its been a great project. Guru i just went with standard to keep everything simple but thanks for the links, i now have a second hand barrel, crank and head i never used |
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Post by ianmartin40 on Jan 5, 2016 21:24:54 GMT
sime66 is right it is p*shing down up here every single day so even if it runs, your not going anywhere till spring time!
I know what its like you are just bursting for the reek of 2 stroke fumes again.
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Post by doulsy on Jan 5, 2016 21:48:30 GMT
sime66 is right it is p*shing down up here every single day so even if it runs, your not going anywhere till spring time! I know what its like you are just bursting for the reek of 2 stroke fumes again. Yeah but i can have it running till its hot, check for leaks, put the new inner cables on look into my very bouncy shocks, plus im gonna be doing a lot of work to my camper over the next few month, was ment to do it last winter so i wont have much time for faffing lol |
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Post by sime66 on Jan 5, 2016 21:57:32 GMT
Don't drag me into this fair-weather scooting lark; get out on 'em ya Big Nancy's! |
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Post by ianmartin40 on Jan 5, 2016 22:03:27 GMT
Scottish winter and Italian steel are never a good mix, in fact Scottish summer and Italian steel can often be bad enough!
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Post by pxguru on Jan 6, 2016 7:24:51 GMT
I can understand your need to keep it simple. You will be able to put the bits you have left over back on ebay.
The reason I suggested that barrel and piston is because it is an original barrel but with a slightly bigger and better (stronger/little faster/more reliable)type of piston.
No rain today! Will be out on mine for a blast.
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Post by doulsy on Jan 6, 2016 8:25:04 GMT
Btw, how can you tell if a barrel is a piaggio part?
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Post by sime66 on Jan 6, 2016 8:45:59 GMT
I can't complain about the weather in the South West; although if I'd waited for a dry day I don't think I'd have ridden since October, we've only had one frost that I recall, and we haven't had the deluge and floods that some other parts of the Country have. But I don't go in for this dry-weather riding poovery; if the water's below your exhaust level, you're good to go!  (Italian steel?) (Dunno, Doulsy; any marks/stamps on it?) |
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Post by doulsy on Jan 7, 2016 22:32:00 GMT
got a new barrel and piston ring gap is 0.3 mm, this a goer then?  barrel is ment to be genuine part but i dont think there is any way of telling, one thing i notice though is how worn the other one is when you look at them together, i will take a picture of them together tomorrow, try getting it fitted over the weekend, wonder if it will go? |
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Post by henri on Jan 8, 2016 9:10:48 GMT
i'm not sure but cant remember piaggio 200 barrels having any marks .odd really as piaggio put there marks everywhere else in abundance .got a genuine 200 barrel in shed an will look later .an no i wasnt "holding out on ya" ,it needs a re-bore an i'm debating porting it an using on my cosa lump. an .3 is perfect ,an of course it will go .H
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Post by doulsy on Jan 8, 2016 12:11:56 GMT
i'm not sure but cant remember piaggio 200 barrels having any marks .odd really as piaggio put there marks everywhere else in abundance .got a genuine 200 barrel in shed an will look later .an no i wasnt "holding out on ya" ,it needs a re-bore an i'm debating porting it an using on my cosa lump. an .3 is perfect ,an of course it will go .H Thats 3 barrels i have, the original that came with scooter, the one from ebay and the one i got from beedspeed, one has the letter d on it and the one from beed has the letter e on it, nothing else. |
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Post by henri on Jan 8, 2016 16:17:24 GMT
if you look in back of px manual theres a "update" for t5's an later px200e's , theres some guff there about matching barrels/pistons by letter codes .havent the manual to hand to check ,but reckon the letter stamped 1's should be piaggio .your ring gaps good ,but i'd check piston/bore clearance on new barrel n piston to be sure . larger than spec=runs but piston slap. too small= seizure n scrap piston at least . H
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Post by pxguru on Jan 9, 2016 7:27:41 GMT
If a barrel looks like a a P200 barrel and feels like a 200 barrel then it probably is. I am not aware that any company make an original looking pattern copy. As far as I know there are two versions of the PX 200 barrel plus the Rally versions before. If the letters go A to E then there could be 5 versions, possibly? The interesting part I know is that there are 2 slightly different port maps for the PX200 barrels. One is a 10BHP version and the other a 12BHP version. I think the low power one had the low compression USA head as original. Not sure what the markings are but, if you measure the ports, the 10 BHP barrel has 2mm smaller transfer ports. And if it has throw it in the nearest bin |
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Post by henri on Jan 9, 2016 9:38:54 GMT
the 10hp barrels were for the german market/legislation ,an mostly only fitted to cosa's .doubt if you will have been supplied with one in this country .even the germans wont buy them .H
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Post by pxguru on Jan 9, 2016 10:51:18 GMT
Quite ironic that the Germans make the slowest 200's into the fastest.
What different parts did the Americans get apart from the low compression USA head?
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barrel is ment to be genuine part but i dont think there is any way of telling, one thing i notice though is how worn the other one is when you look at them together, i will take a picture of them together tomorrow, try getting it fitted over the weekend, wonder if it will go?