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Post by bignico2411 on Dec 11, 2015 9:39:35 GMT
Having read back through some threads, I know spots divide the scootering fraternity, but I've been given a pair of 6" Halogen spotlights that I'd like to wire up rather than just have stuck on the rack like ornaments. Trouble is, I haven't the first clue about scooter electrics. I've read this, and it seems the way to go (Nik's suggestion, I have a battery fitted to my PX), but I wouldn't have a clue where to start. Nik talks about relays and spurs but, to me, that's races you had to run in school and something cowboys wear on their boots!!! I suppose my question is, is there a complete (and I mean complete!) idiot's guide out there as to how to do this? I'm struggling to even understand how you would secret the wire from the battery to the fuse/relay in the glovebox. Any help (p*sh taking, I imagine, will be a given) gratefully received. And I apologise in advance for the plethora of daft questions that will undoubtedly follow!
Cheers
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Post by sime66 on Dec 11, 2015 10:40:32 GMT
First things first; ^^does that say you already have a battery fitted?
If yes, then you can do a tidy job with a bit of work - I'll link you to my thread where I did all my DC goodies.
If no, you might find it easier to put one in your toolbox, like I think rab did.
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Post by bignico2411 on Dec 11, 2015 11:05:21 GMT
First things first; ^^does that say you already have a battery fitted? If yes, then you can do a tidy job with a bit of work - I'll link you to my thread where I did all my DC goodies. If no, you might find it easier to put one in your toolbox, like I think rab did. Sime, yes, my PX has a battery fitted. And thank you!!
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Post by sime66 on Dec 11, 2015 13:52:36 GMT
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Post by bignico2411 on Dec 11, 2015 15:45:49 GMT
Cheers, Si, clear as mud!! I'll print it all off when I'm back in work next week and start reading it properly. I'll no doubt be back with questions....
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Post by sime66 on Dec 11, 2015 16:04:45 GMT
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Post by bignico2411 on Dec 14, 2015 9:03:39 GMT
Si, that last diagram makes it look almost simple!! Someone suggested getting one of these, waste of money or the way to go? I'm not going to tackle this until after the Xmas holidays, but I'll start gathering up what I'm going to need once I know what that is! By the way, these are the spots I have, only in white. Confusingly, there appear to be 4 wires hanging out the bottom, I'll post a pic later
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Post by sime66 on Dec 14, 2015 20:16:24 GMT
£30!!! Whoever suggested that needs a slap! Send me £30 and I'll send you what you need with instructions and wiring diagram! (and have change to buy my turkey). - Switch, relay, wire, crimps, fuses; looks simple, 'cos it is simple – you really don't want or need that 'loom', and where you gonna put that switch anyway?! If you don't want to get the individual bits, which is by far the best way to do a neat job, there's better options than your link, and I'm not suggesting this - do not get it; it's just an idea of why you don't need to spend £30: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12v-Fused-Light-Wiring-Kit-inc-Relay-Universal-Spotlamps-Spot-Fog-Lights-Lamps/180739183565?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33843%26meid%3D0fa2b89155ae4ac7adfb3426a739866d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D3317274646034 wires, eh? Post a photo, or a link to what you have and we'll sort it out; don't know why you've got 4 wires – it's not those poncy LED rim jobs is it? If it is then you've got different wiring and switching needs; you'll have to start by being sure what you have. While you're doing that, think about: How are you getting wire from battery to spots? Where are you putting the relay and fuse(s)? Where are you putting the switch(es)? I'm not after your answers; these are things you need to decide for yourself. You need to plan what you're doing, and to show us these lights if you need help wiring them.
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Post by bignico2411 on Dec 15, 2015 9:29:43 GMT
£30!!! Whoever suggested that needs a slap! Send me £30 and I'll send you what you need with instructions and wiring diagram! (and have change to buy my turkey). - Switch, relay, wire, crimps, fuses; looks simple, 'cos it is simple – you really don't want or need that 'loom', and where you gonna put that switch anyway?! If you don't want to get the individual bits, which is by far the best way to do a neat job, there's better options than your link, and I'm not suggesting this - do not get it; it's just an idea of why you don't need to spend £30: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12v-Fused-Light-Wiring-Kit-inc-Relay-Universal-Spotlamps-Spot-Fog-Lights-Lamps/180739183565?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33843%26meid%3D0fa2b89155ae4ac7adfb3426a739866d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D3317274646034 wires, eh? Post a photo, or a link to what you have and we'll sort it out; don't know why you've got 4 wires – it's not those poncy LED rim jobs is it? If it is then you've got different wiring and switching needs; you'll have to start by being sure what you have. While you're doing that, think about: How are you getting wire from battery to spots? Where are you putting the relay and fuse(s)? Where are you putting the switch(es)? I'm not after your answers; these are things you need to decide for yourself. You need to plan what you're doing, and to show us these lights if you need help wiring them. Hahaha, Si, that's why I use this forum, to stop me getting ripped off!! I'm more than happy to buy the individual bits I need rather than some complete set-up that's too expensive and unneccessary. These are the spots: www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001BU9FN6/ref=s9_simh_gw_p60_d1_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=14WDXX2NZ96RFGHVPPGW&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=577048407&pf_rd_i=desktopYes, they are the poncy ones (in white), but I'm only interested in running the spot, not the LED gubbins. I don't know if that makes a difference in terms of the wiring/switching needs. As for where everything is going, simplest set-up seems to be switch on top of toolbox, with the relay and fuses in the toolbox (similar to your own set-up). Wires from spots in behind horncover and into toolbox through indicator 'holes'. And whilst I've never taken the fuel tank out, your suggestion on running the wire from the battery that way sounds like the tidiest way to go. So, apart from the 12V 40A relay, what do I need to get? I presume I'll need a particular ampage (is that even a word?) of fuse, wiring capable of carrying whatever load my battery puts out, a toggle switch and some sort of board to mount all the complicated bits on?
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Post by sime66 on Dec 15, 2015 19:11:11 GMT
Watt = Amp × Volt , so Amp = Watt / Volt – (you have Watts and Volts) Ohms Law Calculator here (that's what I did for my circuits): www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator12V, Amps from spots, gives you Watts; put a bigger fuse in, and a plenty bigger than that wire and waterproof switch. - Fuse is smallest; blows first, protects everything else. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) Don't you have wiring or installation instructions for the fancy, 4-wired spots? I imagine you can either just wire up the main lamp and isolate the LED wires, or join them so they all come on together – you have the information there about that, and what you want to do with the LEDs is your decision. I'd say you've made it more complicated by having them and their 'three options' if you're not going to use them, and I'd say that 150mm is too big. A couple of simple 100mm ones would be simpler and better. But your scoot – your pair of tits hanging on the front. If I were you I'd run a few spare wires up the tunnel while you're at it; you'll be glad you did. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) If I were you I'd think about if I were going to want anything else DC up the pointy-end while I'm at it. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) I'd run them in a sleeve to protect them in the tunnel. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) I made my own little board from an Ice Cream tub lid; use your creative talents or copy/simplify mine. In fact I think you'll find most of the answers are there already, which is why I linked to it, rather than writing it all out again. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) I got all the bits and pieces off Ebay; it's just as quick for you to find them yourself as it is for someone else to find them and post links for you - especially if you're waiting for them to find time to do it. The bits I used are shown in the diagrams and photos in the threads I linked, the means of sizing is as above. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) If I get time I'll look up my old orders or Ebay links, but it is all there in the thread, and I might not get round to it until the weekend; I'm struggling to find time to do my own scooter jobs at the moment, so perhaps you can find some stuff, and post links if you need to check before ordering.
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Post by bignico2411 on Dec 16, 2015 13:28:30 GMT
Watt = Amp × Volt , so Amp = Watt / Volt – (you have Watts and Volts) Ohms Law Calculator here (that's what I did for my circuits): www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator12V, Amps from spots, gives you Watts; put a bigger fuse in, and a plenty bigger than that wire and waterproof switch. - Fuse is smallest; blows first, protects everything else. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) Don't you have wiring or installation instructions for the fancy, 4-wired spots? I imagine you can either just wire up the main lamp and isolate the LED wires, or join them so they all come on together – you have the information there about that, and what you want to do with the LEDs is your decision. I'd say you've made it more complicated by having them and their 'three options' if you're not going to use them, and I'd say that 150mm is too big. A couple of simple 100mm ones would be simpler and better. But your scoot – your pair of tits hanging on the front. If I were you I'd run a few spare wires up the tunnel while you're at it; you'll be glad you did. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) If I were you I'd think about if I were going to want anything else DC up the pointy-end while I'm at it. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) I'd run them in a sleeve to protect them in the tunnel. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) I made my own little board from an Ice Cream tub lid; use your creative talents or copy/simplify mine. In fact I think you'll find most of the answers are there already, which is why I linked to it, rather than writing it all out again. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) I got all the bits and pieces off Ebay; it's just as quick for you to find them yourself as it is for someone else to find them and post links for you - especially if you're waiting for them to find time to do it. The bits I used are shown in the diagrams and photos in the threads I linked, the means of sizing is as above. (see my thread; I'm sure there's others too) If I get time I'll look up my old orders or Ebay links, but it is all there in the thread, and I might not get round to it until the weekend; I'm struggling to find time to do my own scooter jobs at the moment, so perhaps you can find some stuff, and post links if you need to check before ordering. First things first, Si; I know you're busy with the fine tuning on your scoot, so please don't distract yourself with my nonsense. You've already proved an invaluable help, and it's much appreciated. Spoke to the guy who gave me the spots, he doesn't have any wiring instructions which may well explain why he was happy to give them away! And you're comment re size got me thinking; measured the spots up against the rack last night, and they ARE huge. Looks like something from the fence-line in a gulag!! I'm taking your advice and going with a pair of 4" (100mm). I'll figure out what else I need (being spoonfed the info is all well and good, but I'm never going to learn that way) and post up a shopping list for peer review before I pull the trigger. And whilst I'm pretty sure I won't want/need any other DC stuff, a few extra wires sounds like a good idea. I'll post updates as I progress, just to make sure I'm not disappearing up my own fusebox!! Thanks again, mate, I'd be lost if it weren't for guys like you taking time out to keep me right!
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Post by sime66 on Dec 16, 2015 14:15:37 GMT
I'll always help when I'm able; I owe this forum for all the help I've had (and am still getting in spades) too, and helping is giving something back – as hopefully you will down the line too, when you've done a few jobs, and can pas your experiences on to the new chaps. It's true, time is a bit of a factor for me at the moment; the time of year (to get a few days cleared for doing nothing at all) and my own new engine setting-up has just gone a tad tricky too. There's also the question of when the help is too much to be helpful, which is a judgement call. It's the do you give a man a fish or teach him to fish question. We'll step in and stop you wasting you time and money, but actually designing your stuff for you or telling you what to buy is probably coming close to preventing you learning for yourself. Having said that, and contradicting what I've just said, and because I don't like to leave people struggling, I did have a little wander through Ebay last night – my own purchases, and some other options where mine were no longer available. Do not buy all of this; there's different options, sizes, ways of doing it etc., but these will give you an idea of the sort of stuff you should be looking at: (do some simple calcs – or just oversize or nick my sizes off my sketches, sketch it out, think about how you're going to put it all together, list what you need, do a little take-off of lengths/items/amounts/tools? – maybe post something for checking; I'll make the time to look over it if you've done that bit for yourself): www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280812195880?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&autorefresh=truewww.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-PIN-12V-30-A-RELAY-30-AMP-30-A-CAR-BOAT-VAN-MOTORCYCLE-HORN-RY1-/291025893834?hash=item43c27eb9ca:g:QUAAAOxyAZ9SQax3www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-4-6-8-10-12-16-WAY-HEAVY-DUTY-FUSE-BOX-HOLDER-12V-VOLT-BLADE-KIT-CAR-MARINE-/321061386290?var=&hash=item4ac0bff832:m:mDxQIxqQyxy4ZkYItRLwFtwwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/In-Line-5x20mm-Wired-Glass-Fuse-Holder-Socket-11A-12V-DC-5A-250V-AC-/260941297355?hash=item3cc15036cb:m:m07E2i7MM50gykUXMNRsmgAwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterproof-Automotive-30A-12V-24V-Inline-ATC-Standard-Blade-Fuse-Holder-12-AWG-/270924230575?hash=item3f1457afaf:g:vggAAOSwBahU1MbOwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAR-AUTO-MOTOR-BIKE-VAN-MINI-BLADE-FUSE-FUSES-Multi-Choice-Various-Amps-/251877615363?var=&hash=item3aa5136703:m:mPBtrHSlg78nKaGQjV5K1aQwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAR-BLADE-FUSE-AUTO-FUSES-caravan-Standard-Mini-/131300736491?var=&hash=item1e92223deb:m:mLU-CB-kjI4dHn3ioewjTiQwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-Standard-Blade-Fuse-Fuses-Car-Motorbike-Choose-5-7-5-10-15-20-25-30-Amp-/281094298330?var=&hash=item4172869ada:m:mYIjznVYlQLo7abz4SEwwDgwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/321326436914?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/FULLY-INSULATED-FEMALE-SPADE-TERMINAL-ELECTRICAL-CRIMP-WIRE-CONNECTOR-/281705959160?var=&hash=item4196fbcef8:m:mdJRMSiZuvgiVLXsGzE6m0Qwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/100x-Blue-Bullet-Connector-Insulated-Crimp-Terminals-for-Electrical-Wiring-/371017736678?hash=item56626161e6:m:mUXuQrixPI0o8LdPK1pUFZgwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/Non-Insulated-Crimp-Tool-6-3mm-3-9mm-Bullets-Flag-Terminals-Crimping-Spade-DL-/181040907550?hash=item2a26e1051e:m:mPqh0SOhN43l9b-xVGPGF7Awww.ebay.co.uk/itm/Insulated-Ring-Terminals-Electrical-Splice-Crimp-On-Connector-Eyelet-All-Sizes-/111277038359?var=&hash=item19e8a0db17:m:mjZMvpvf8_ZV83TlpMoo3fwwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/360-Insulated-Assorted-Electrical-Wire-Terminal-Crimp-Connector-Spade-Set-Box-/400991263627?hash=item5d5cf11b8b:g:D4IAAOSwv-NWYADxwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Braided-Sleeve-Sleeving-Cable-Harness-Sheathing-Expanding-3mm-to-50mm-/290814495525?var=&hash=item43b5e50b25:m:mmtiebeVxQ6Oba1bWO-zbWgwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flexible-PVC-Cable-Sleeving-Tubing-Wiring-Harness-Black-All-Sizes-Lengths-/221389500800?var=&hash=item338bd7b180:m:mGyyhNvMMynOo7hZao4hAUgIf you really don't want anything else DC; maybe just have the fuse by the battery and squeeze the relay in behind the horncover (I see fused relays too; maybe check them out, but fuses behind horncover is not so good - think about your options for your scooter) – that's a bit more wiring between relay and switch but no board or stuff dangling in your toolbox; just a thought, but that's why you think it through and decide for yourself first, and why, regardless of cost, that 'loom' was never going to be a good idea – you'd be cutting it up and still be buying crimp connectors, wire etc anyway......... B.T.W. If you quote me in a thread, it comes up on my phone as a message, so please don't quote, just post and I'll see it soon enough without having to stop and check what's so fekin' important.
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Post by bignico2411 on Dec 17, 2015 14:09:47 GMT
Si, point taken re quoting you, I didn't realise an alarm went off alerting you to my idiocy!! And again, my thanks for more links to give me an idea of what I'm going to need. As I said before, I'm confident I'm not going to add anything additional by way of DC, so I may well forgo the extra wires up the tunnel. And I have to say, I like the idea of a fused relay (I'm guessing I'd still need to fuse the switch part of the circuit?), but I'll read up on them before I make a decision. As I'm going to fit the switch on top of the toolbox, I'm happy enough to have a little board inside there, reckon there'll be room. A couple of quick questions before I go any further: Can the spotlight wires be spliced together and fed from a single circuit? You're simple wiring diagram suggests I need one wire from the +ve side of the battery which needs to be 'split' and then fused accordingly, with one side feeding directly into the relay and the other doing the same but via the switch/trigger. Is that right? Cheers
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Post by sime66 on Dec 17, 2015 15:36:37 GMT
When you've had the tank out, fannied around getting wires through, and appreciate what a faff it can be, you'll wish you'd put some extra wires in so you don't have to do it again any time soon. It will cost a couple of quid, will take you no more time, and will save you a morning some time in the future; it's your call though. I don't know how those fused relays are wired, but if they're what I think they are then that saves the need for any board the way I'm picturing it; I'll maybe have a look at them later; I'm curious for myself how they work. Yes both spots off one relay, as my little sketch. Familiarise (Google) yourself with how this type of relay works to help you understand. Roughly this; there's two circuits 1) is a small-amp trigger circuit with a switch on it (this switch and wiring should be protected by it's own fuse, but I didn't), this runs 85 to 86 (or vice versa actually, it doesn't matter), this will be open when switched off, and when you switch it on it triggers (closes) 2) the full-amp circuit 30 to 87. This means you don't have to have an expensive, arcing, full-amp switch for your lamps, just a switch on the trigger circuit (or you could use another circuit as the trigger circuit, ie. full beam - you can't do it in this case because your AC full beam won't work on a DC relay, so don't ask; I know it would be pretty, but it gets more complicated - I have threads-of-failure on this). The full-amp circuit has a fuse to protect the relay, wiring, and lamps. Both circuits are live (battery +ve) to earth (frame). If you have a read, so that you understand that, then you'll understand how the relay works and why it's wired like it is. If anyone wants to nit-pick what I've written; I'm just quickly jotting off the top of my head; I have said to go and read it from a proper source. I think that covers it; good luck with your shopping!
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