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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 4, 2015 12:44:27 GMT
Went out to clean the scoot this morning to find this Did the simple thing first and checked drain and filler bolts, both sound. Oil smells of petrol. Scoot is running fine, but I'm assuming this is something I can't just ignore. Help!! Thanks
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Post by vespasco on Oct 4, 2015 15:03:31 GMT
First impressions is its coming from the gear selector gasket
But petrol in your oil is not a good sign at all This ususally means you have a blown clutch side seal.
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 4, 2015 18:35:36 GMT
First impressions is its coming from the gear selector gasket But petrol in your oil is not a good sign at all This ususally means you have a blown clutch side seal. How do I go about checking the gear selector gasket, vespasco? Should that be my starting point? If it is a blown clutch side seal, is that a big/expensive/difficult fix? I now have Sausage's DVDs, though I've not had a chance to look at them yet, does he cover this?
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Post by vespasco on Oct 4, 2015 19:44:49 GMT
Yes the dvd covers everything youd need to know
If you are sure there is petrol in the oil it really could only be the clutch seal which unfortunately could be costly/difficult etc but not impossible, especially if you know how to use a spanner already.
It should be easy to trace an oil leak just by cleaning and drying all the joints in the engine..engine casing, clutch cover, gear selector box, carb, air box, cylinder and head. After a few runs it should be easy to trace.
BUT if the seal is gone, then you really do need to sort that before you seriously damage something.
Do try and find out where the leak is coming from and address it when you change the clutch seal.
Hopefully you will discover its just the carb leaking and no need to split the engine! Espedially if you say its actually running ok. So do thoroughly check that area too. Fingers crossed for ya
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Post by pxguru on Oct 5, 2015 6:05:49 GMT
looks like it could be running from the carb box. Could just be blow back from being a bit rich....... or a carb leak
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Post by henri on Oct 5, 2015 7:11:42 GMT
same as guru, my 1st thought was a dribble from mixture screw hole on rear of carb box , hence the petrol smell .H
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 5, 2015 7:59:16 GMT
p*shing down here today, gents, but as soon as the rain goes, I'll take a look at the carb box. Stupid question #1; If it is the carb box, what is the solution?
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Post by sime66 on Oct 5, 2015 8:47:05 GMT
If it is the carb box, what is the solution? ...take carb off, remove carb box screw, take carb box off - theres two more surfaces that need to be good and flat, and have a sound gasket there, between casings and carb box - I showed a photo of a manky and cleaned-up one on your last thread. You have to consider this in conjunction with your previous problem warm-starting thread, and satisfy yourself that you resolved it before, which wasn't certain. It makes a big difference if you have fuel in your oil or not, so you need to be sure; when did you last change your oil? (might be in last thread - not time to re-read it this morning) Might be worth doing? Also some of the leak locations for that problem are also possibilities here, and there's only a few other possibilities if the cases themselves are sound; barrel and head, carb, clutch breather, selector box, filler (too much oil?)/drain So: Is oil contaminated with fuel? - put a pot under it to get enough to be sure or drain a bit/oil change. What is source of leak? - see previous suggestions, clean around all suspect areas – someone suggested talc before on clean areas to show source up - never needed to try that as mine have been obvious. Can you get some cover, or get it indoors for a bit, where you can get it clean and dry? I know it's a bugger; I'm doing all mine in the garden and planning round weather forecasts too.
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 5, 2015 10:32:33 GMT
Cheers, Si, that gives me somewhere to start. Oil was changed recently (during warm start issues), but I'll drain some out and have a look. I know my way around the carb from my previous issue, so that should be within my skill level to check as well.
Unfortunately, getting the scoot indoors is not an option (just don't have the room), so I'm going to have to wait for the weather to clear up. But I will try that talc tip once I've cleaned off the suspect areas. Would a leak from barrel/head be obvious? I had the cowling off last week and it looked clean and dry
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Post by sime66 on Oct 5, 2015 10:45:53 GMT
I'm short on time now - it will be much easier when you have it clean and dry, wherever it's coming from. Don't forget what H said about screw at rear of carb as possibility before taking stuff apart. I'll read-back tonight.
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 6, 2015 20:01:52 GMT
Ok, managed a bit of tinkering before rain stopped play Drained oil and let it settle. No rainbows or smell of petrol, which I understand is a good thing. Took carb out, this is what the box looks like: Apologies for picture quality, iphone camera is sh*te. The gasket is soaking, which I'm guessing it maybe shouldn't be. The leak doesn't appear to be coming from the mixture screw as was suggested, though it does seem to be coming from the general carb area. Si suggested taking the box off to check between casing and box, daft question #1 is how to I get the box off? As a sidenote, the cylinder head/barrel are dry, although there is some old oily gunk on the underside which I've cleaned off. Daft question #2 is just to satisfy my own curiosity. The tube/pipe in this pic has been taped off, what was its original purpose? thanks as always Nick
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Post by sime66 on Oct 6, 2015 20:17:08 GMT
Your photos are tiny!!! - sort it out #1 If you lift that gasket, you'll see one screw holding down the carb box; unscrew that ( don't drop it down the hole!!!!!*) and lift the carb box. BUT if the gasket inside the carb box is soaking, your problem would seem to be carb or carb to carb box, not carb box to casings. #2 Have you got autolube disconnected? I can't really see from the picture, but is it the oil line you're talking about? I imagine that's it. Much simpler task now that you've ascertained no fuel in your oil - this is good news. *Bung that inlet with a bit of cloth or something while you're messing about there though, otherwise it will be bad news.
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 6, 2015 20:45:06 GMT
Your photos are tiny!!! - sort it out #1 If you lift that gasket, you'll see one screw holding down the carb box; unscrew that ( don't drop it down the hole!!!!!*) and lift the carb box. BUT if the gasket inside the carb box is soaking, your problem would seem to be carb or carb to carb box, not carb box to casings. #2 Have you got autolube disconnected? I can't really see from the picture, but is it the oil line you're talking about? I imagine that's it. Much simpler task now that you've ascertained no fuel in your oil - this is good news. *Bung that inlet with a bit of cloth or something while you're messing about there though, otherwise it will be bad news. Si, as my wife says regularly, how do I make them bigger?? #1 Ok, sounds easy enough as long as I stay out of the hole! You probably can't see from the pick, but the banja is still connected to the fuel line. I'm guessing the box wont lift completely away unless I pull that out and cover the line. If we're inside the box, is it strip down the carb time again, or just get a new/better gasket? There's a paper/card one there at present. #2 Yes, been disconnected for a long time. I thought it might have been that, but wasn't sure. Phew re no petrol, had visions of engine splitting! Cheers for the tip re inlet, though I put the carb back in as soon as I took the pictures. Thanks as always, Si, I'll try and reward your patience with less daft questions now I have the Sausage DVDs and work through them!!
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Post by pxguru on Oct 7, 2015 3:44:25 GMT
Looks from the tiny picture like the carb gasket is non-autolube (no oil hole to carb). If the pump is still spinning this might be an issue.
When you take the carb box off. Check the drive autolube drive shaft has been removed. For non autolube this should be taken out already!
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 7, 2015 8:09:45 GMT
Looks from the tiny picture like the carb gasket is non-autolube (no oil hole to carb). If the pump is still spinning this might be an issue. When you take the carb box off. Check the drive autolube drive shaft has been removed. For non autolube this should be taken out already! I will have a look this evening. Scoot is an autolube model, but it was disabled back in 2010 when I had a soft seize the first time I rode the thing! What does the autolube drive shaft look like? And do you think I'm using the wrong gaskets in the carb? again with the daft questions, I apologise! Cheers Nick
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Post by vespasco on Oct 7, 2015 18:48:18 GMT
You have the correct gasket for your disconnected auto lube. Order some new gaskets for your carb, non auto lube model. Thoroughly rub some grease in the them. Fit to dry, clean carb. Black scum under cylinder is normal
Forive me if was clear that there was something !eaking down the back of your cases, all i could see was a vespa engine and an oily spot on the driveway!
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 7, 2015 20:33:29 GMT
You have the correct gasket for your disconnected auto lube. Order some new gaskets for your carb, non auto lube model. Thoroughly rub some grease in the them. Fit to dry, clean carb. Black scum under cylinder is normal Forive me if was clear that there was something !eaking down the back of your cases, all i could see was a vespa engine and an oily spot on the driveway! No apology needed, vespasco; as sime says, my pictures are tiny and I don't know how to make them bigger!! Had another fiddle today, and took the carb box off enough to have a look between box and casing. It's 'clean', but the gasket is wet. Will it come as part of the gasket set? I've a notion I ended up with what I thought was a spare the last time a bought a set. I presume the 'spare' was the one for between box and casing? Beedspeed list a gasket set for autolube and non-autolube, but when I click on them, there's no option to specify which?? GasketsAs suggested by pxguru, when I had the box off, I looked and the drive shaft for the autolube is still there. Having just watched Sausage, it looks easy to remove, but do I need to blank off the hole if I remove it? Again, having watched Sausage, I noticed there was a clip on his fuel pipe below the banjo. There isn't one on mine, is that a big deal? When you say rub some grease into the gaskets, should they be slathered in it, or just a light coating. And is there any particular grease you sage gentlemen prefer? Yet another raft of questions, sorry, but if I don't ask, I'm never gonna learn this sh*t!! Cheers Nick
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Post by pxguru on Oct 8, 2015 5:42:43 GMT
Remove the autolube drive shaft. It just lifts out with your fingers. Then put the carb box back on with a new gasket from the gasket set. The autolube is then disabled. Keep the shaft somewhere safe if needed in the future.
You do need a clip on the fuel pipe to banjo. This could be the cause of your leak!
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Post by sime66 on Oct 8, 2015 7:50:10 GMT
You're getting plenty of help around carb/autolube etc, so I'll stay out of it for now; just briefly on your pictures though: This is not a problem with the forum or with Photobucket; you were doing a fine job of posting photos before. If you look at your Photobucket album and compare these with previous photos you will see that you have actually uploaded tiny pictures from your phone. It looks to me that you're uploading thumbnails, not the actual pictures; the issue is with your phone - never had an iphone, so don't know what you're doing wrong.
(I bet it's just a clip on the banjo will sort your leak, but you should do the lube drive and gaskets now you're in there)
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 8, 2015 8:10:02 GMT
pxguru - thanks for the info re the drive shaft, I'll get that removed tonight. and I'm ordering some bits and pieces this morning, so I'll add a clip to the list.
Si - I suspect it's me using iCloud to stream pics from phone to laptop that's the problem. I'll go back to usb cable in future! Fingers crossed on the clip being the issue, but I'm going to clean the entire carb set-up when I'm in there. The exterior of the box is filthy with oily sludge and the rubber trim is shot, so a refurb will do no harm. Anything more scientific than soapy water and a stiff brush to clean box and casing, followed by some WD40?
Cheers
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Post by sime66 on Oct 8, 2015 8:27:17 GMT
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 8, 2015 8:55:30 GMT
I've already snagged a tea towel to cover inlet! You pre-empted a question on hose clips, both type and size. So 15mm and spring clip is the way to go? I presume it goes over the hose to clamp the banjo in place? Cheers
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Post by sime66 on Oct 8, 2015 9:02:49 GMT
I thought you'd be getting from Beedspeed, but I was short on time to search their site for the right bit. The link was for the type of clip, not the size. I think you need 12mm for banjo connection not 15mm. Check your pipe, or check the listing when you order it. Yest the pipe goes over the banjo and the clip goes over the pipe. See my photo in your previous thread, but use this type clip, not jubilee clip shown there.
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 8, 2015 9:16:42 GMT
I thought you'd be getting from Beedspeed, but I was short on time to search their site for the right bit. The link was for the type of clip, not the size. I think you need 12mm for banjo connection not 15mm. Check your pipe, or check the listing when you order it. Yest the pipe goes over the banjo and the clip goes over the pipe. See my photo in your previous thread, but use this type clip, not jubilee clip shown there. Beedspeed don't list a 15, Si, so I think you're right with 12mm. Went with this one: Spring clipI'll take a look back at that to make sure I've got my positioning right. Thanks again for all the help, much appreciated. I'll report back once the job's done.
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 9, 2015 17:37:50 GMT
Ok, having stripped the carb and cleaned the carb box, I'm now ready to clean the casings. Which are absolutely boggin', as we say over here. I've stuck an old rag over the inlet whilst doing other bits and pieces, but I'm going to have to remove it to get the casing properly clean. Anybody got any tips as to what I can use that'll give me access but stop any dirt getting in?
Cheers
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Post by bigd on Oct 9, 2015 19:34:37 GMT
Nico, when I had my carb box leak I used some kitchen roll to plug the inlet and a can of brake or carb cleaner to remove the years of grime off the casing, if your removing the oil drive shaft I think Sip do a machined grommet to plug the oil feed hole in the casing.
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 9, 2015 19:51:04 GMT
Nico, when I had my carb box leak I used some kitchen roll to plug the inlet and a can of brake or carb cleaner to remove the years of grime off the casing, if your removing the oil drive shaft I think Sip do a machined grommet to plug the oil feed hole in the casing. You're a star, D; I have carb cleaner, so that should work a treat. You should see it, mate, serious boggin'! And I'll take a look on the Sip site for the grommet. Cheers, mate
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Post by bigd on Oct 9, 2015 20:22:51 GMT
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Post by bignico2411 on Oct 9, 2015 21:05:37 GMT
D, that could actually be my carb box, it's just that dirty! Did carb cleaner alone bring that back to what it was, or did you use anything else apart from elbow grease?!
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Post by bigd on Oct 9, 2015 21:36:33 GMT
Might of been brake cleaner and a wipe with a towel a couple of times mate.
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