gram67
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 28
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Post by gram67 on May 28, 2015 17:23:31 GMT
Hi All
Ive restored and rebuilt the engine and carburettor on my 1974 Rally 200 Femsatronic with battery 6v.
I have a healthy spark, unmeasured on meter, the stator plate has been rewound professionally and fuel is entering the barrel.
Carburettor is set 3.5 turns on top screw and 2 turns on rear idle screw.
Unfortunately it refuses to start or even fire once, can anyone suggest what maybe causing its reluctance to come to life after many years?
Thanks in advance
KP
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Post by henri on May 28, 2015 18:15:14 GMT
the classic "DOH" moment when a new build wont start is piston on back to front , shud be arrow pointing to exhaust port , if ya sure this isnt it a quick diagnosis is spray easy start down carb, kickover , if it pops its a fuelling fault , no pop = ignition failure , you might find it will fire n run on easy start an then keep runnin on petrol an be ok afterwards ,wouldnt be the first resto that resists being awakened from its slumber . H
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Post by vespasco on May 28, 2015 19:18:42 GMT
Im not sure where youre measuring the top carb screw 3.5 turns from but if you doubt your (original rally carb?), start from here: Unscrew the top throttle slide screw so the slide is fully closed. Slacken the throttle cable if necessary. Then slowly screw in the top throttle screw until the slide just starts to open. From tnere give one more turn on the screw. Adjust the cable to take up any sack. Set the small idle mix screw at the back of the carb to 2.5 turns out (if its an old rally carb, 1.5 turns out if it is a modern dellorto or spaco). This should be fine for starting for the first time If you also have a strong spark and fuel is reaching barrel, then that leads to compression...or lack of! Its still worth checking your timing and ignition circuit before tearing your motor apart Its also quite easy (but maybe not so cheap)!? to convert to Ducati 12v Also see above ^^^
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gram67
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 28
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Post by gram67 on May 28, 2015 19:37:30 GMT
Hi H
Thank you for your reply, I've taken the head off to make sure and the arrow on top of the piston, it's been a while since I rebuilt the engine, SC => is pointing towards the exhaust port.
i don't have any easy start to hand at the moment, will buy some tomorrow.
Best regards
Kelvin
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gram67
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 28
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Post by gram67 on May 28, 2015 19:46:13 GMT
Hi Vespasco
Thank you for your reply, I'm measuring the top screw from tightened up then unwinding anti clockwise 3.5 turns, but I will try your suggestion.
the rear screw is wound out X2, i'll wind it in by .5 and try that setting.
The compression seems fine compared to my P200.
how do do check the timing when the stator plate is in a fixed position?
I'm very keen to keep the scooter original unless it's totally hopeless, I'm pleased to have got a decent spark from the Femsatronic unit, how do I test its strength?
best regards
Kelvin
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gram67
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 28
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Post by gram67 on May 28, 2015 20:29:55 GMT
Having re torqued the head back in position the spark is erratic, it seems to spark when the HT cap is fettle do, should I cut the HT lead back an inch?
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Post by paulsummers on May 28, 2015 20:42:44 GMT
Hello Kelvin Im having the same issues on my rally 200 1974 Femsa. My engine is virtually brand new apart from the casings. Rebuilt stator,carb, the works. The engine WAS running until last week, started first time every time. My problem was a tick over issue. Anyway I got home and scoot stalled, its refused to start ever since. Its seems to flood, plug soaking. I have pitch black oil from the exhaust outlet and a few spits from the exhaust port. The spark seems ok? The only thing i haven't checked is the compression, which i suppose i need to buy a tester. I did however have a look at my flywheel, thinking it could be stator issue?? My wheel on the inside has a deep bur/ impression on it. Its an impression from one of three magnitos. This cant be right???
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gram67
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 28
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Post by gram67 on May 28, 2015 21:08:19 GMT
Hi Paul
I will check my flywheel, I have that there can be issues with crank alignment but that would have to be severe to cause your problem.
I don't have a lot of experience with Rally's, am I correct in thinking that the only adjustable part on the stator plate is the pickup, which may cause abrasion, but then gap wou,d be too wide to work!!
Regards
K
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Post by paulsummers on May 28, 2015 21:23:28 GMT
Hello Kelvin
To be honest im at a loss? All i know is that the stator is fixed. Didnt think it could be adjusted? I brought the engine about 9 yrs ago. It sat untouched for about 7 yrs. In the last 2 yrs I very slowly rebuilt it. Im not 100% if the stator is original. Ive noticed some have femsa printed on them, mine doesnt. Anyway im sure this not my problem ref non starting engine. One thing I also need to check is the bore size. I think its oversized?? So my jets need looking at.
Thanks for repling and looking at your wheel.
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Post by jedihunter on May 28, 2015 22:39:27 GMT
Maybe ... try pulling the flywheel off and check your stator to pick up clearance, timing. loose wires etc. My 74 rally had a faulty ignition switch, that worked occasionally,but mines a US model. but you might want to check the kill switch. Keep us posted,please, I've another 74 to restore, and any info would be appreciated.
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Post by paulsummers on May 29, 2015 11:54:19 GMT
Hello jedihunter Thanks for reply. The kill switch "seems" ok?? Well when I check the spark,the switch kills it when required. Apart from the bur in the inner lining of the flywheel, I think all is ok?? What do you mean by pick up clearance??? But who knows? Im more confinced that its a fuel/air mix which is causing my non start and pitch black oil issue. The last time the scooter ran, all was well apart from idling at traffic lights. Came home, it stoped,never started since. Brand new carb. Rewired stator, brand new cdi. Its a total nut and bolt resto.
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Post by paulsummers on May 29, 2015 11:54:53 GMT
Sorry
Thanks
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Post by henri on May 29, 2015 18:23:14 GMT
before checkin clearance between pick up n flywheel ,a tedious n hit n miss job , i'd stick with your first suspicion an check carb/fuel/mixture settings , most likely culprit on a new build not startin if youve a good spark, H
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Post by paulsummers on May 29, 2015 20:02:34 GMT
Thanks, will keep you posted.
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Post by jedihunter on May 29, 2015 22:01:49 GMT
As H. says. Sorry I tend to look for the hardest solution first, must be the pessimist in me, or maybe my scoots like to torment me! Stick with it, you'll get there in the end.
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Post by paulsummers on Jun 3, 2015 18:57:08 GMT
Hello all,
Well after a long hard attempt to resolve non start, i think ive found a problem. Ive found petrol in around the crank?. I took the barrel off, wanting to look at piston, and exhaust port etc. Ive dropped the oil no petrol visible.
Any ideas of cause???
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Post by vespasco on Jun 3, 2015 20:34:59 GMT
It could be flooding due to there not being a strong enough spark to burn the fuel, even although everything "seems" ok. So you have the later carb - with the finer thread on the air/mix screw, with stock jetting? So yes 1.5 x, even 2 x turns out should be ok to start it. Im still leading towards ignition circuit tho'.
Not a proper solution but Its nice to keep it original but its even nicer when you ride it! I had the same dilemma when i built my '74 Rally. I opted for Ducati in the end, very simple and reliable (when using quality parts). The Ducati 12v is still a Rally feature so its not straying off the path too far.
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Post by paulsummers on Jun 4, 2015 14:22:57 GMT
Hello all Well after a normal 5hr stint on scooter, after top end rebuild etc, still no joy. I hadnt as yet vompleted a compression test. Sad to report im not geting no higher than 60 psi. Does this mean a complete split and inspection of all seals I did drop a little oil on top of piston, which showed no change.
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Post by paulsummers on Jun 4, 2015 14:24:10 GMT
Im sure completed is the word? ?
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Post by henri on Jun 4, 2015 16:15:42 GMT
oil in bore n no raise means it aint ya rings , before a bottom end tear up , how about checkin flatness of barrel n head an lapping em together to make sure pressure drops not from head gasket join , re-assembly with copper gasket goo an see if psi is up , H
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Post by paulsummers on Jun 4, 2015 17:10:34 GMT
Thanks H will try that one, infact I spoke to beedspeed earlier and he mentioned that to. After going through all "have you checked?",its surley my only possible road before a complete strip!! ?
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Post by henri on Jun 4, 2015 18:07:43 GMT
it was runnin , an then it wasnt , so shouldnt be worn rings/bore=loss of compression , so unless youve had a total catastrophic ring failure ,cracking n being spit down the exhaust , which i'm sure you'd of noticed ,the blow at headgaskets the obvious culprit , H
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gram67
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 28
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Post by gram67 on Jun 11, 2015 20:22:18 GMT
Not too sure which replies apply to my original post!!
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