NeW RiDe

[vespasco]

Ive just picked up something that i think was a flippin good deal in the end

It did this in 2012, freshly built from scratch but im not sure which pipe was used


and on MicroDyno just now, 1200 miles / 3 years later. Same set up? Untouched



Theres definately some improvement to be had from this anyway

The top graph feels more like whats actually going on.

Can you tell what it is yet?

Ive only rode it once, just now,

Quick look at the engine:
The engine was built in 2012 with the following new parts
New EFL 200 cases (i didnt even realise that until id bought it)!!
New cylinder kit (any guesses)!?
New exhaust (any guesses)!?
Stock si24 with autolube
Not sure if the gears were new or not (late type)
New bearing/seals/crux/clutch kit/primary kit
Stock crank, probably
No porting on cases, probably (hopefully)
Cosa ll clutch by the feel of it
(Any guesses yet? Youd be shocked looking at that dyno, probably)

Scooter upgrades
Michelin S1 x 3
Bitubo shocks rear and front
Extra security

Bonus:
Large lockable/removable rear box carrier
Twin mirrors
Autolube
Bar end balls
Sip stand feet
Dellorto carb (not Spaco)
1 x key fits all (2 of)
No battery
Indicators (which I'll never turn off as I've only ever owned one scooter (never owned a bike) with indicators,
and that was another fugly vespa imo, a PX200 GS, the German version of the T5 with efl 200 / Spanish TX 200. I only had that for a few months. Very smooth ride but not for me.
I may get converted to P range one day. Ive owned/maybe still own!? a couple in India.
But i luv the classics

Yet i do quite like this non descript, only slightly knocked/scratched/scrapped...
'83 PX125E !!! (With × motor)?!?
which i just bought!!

I've had a quick look around it and its going to need a service. A couple of quick fixes here an there.
I think its been stood up a lot more than its been used. Just 400miles a year.
Lots of service history, mots, receipts, etc going back 15 years
Long MOT
Its a very 'soft' ride. Ive not touched the Bitubos yet but
although the seat is worn, tyres little flat,
worst is the play in the new cases shock bushes!! They feel like they're made of flip flops!
I wondered why it was so 'soft' and a bit 'spongy' around the bends!!
If im really lucky, I'll find its just all the bolts need to be re-torqued.
After just 1200 miles, built by a tuning shop, id expect a bit better than what i found but it could have been the previous owner in all fairness.

Engine needs tweaking (of course)
Theres no holes in the (very dirty) air filter
A too small 125MJ, otherwise stock carb/jets. (I forgot to look at the slide - very likely stock) and a loose air filter as one bolt is too short or stripped.
It ticks over ok and is fairly smooth upto the power band but does need to be richer all round
The pipe is very nice! Not my style but i may just treat the Pinasco, just for a day or 2
And the pipe is....
PM Evolution

And the cylinder is....??
Malossi 210

*Edit: damn! There goes my little game, it was written in the dyno results!

Im not quite sure what im going to do with it yet. It was an unexpected win! I may even keep it! and go modern and not have to worry too much about what happens to it.

But the Vespa, (my Rally 200), is soo comfortable, tight, easy and has ALWAYS got me there and back and i know it so well and it will still remain my main ride.

The PX is nothing to look at ..which i like...so no pix of the PX

Plan:
Check/Adjust/Ride
Repeat above until steps 1 and 2 have been eliminated.
Ride.
Service regularly.

Remember to fill up the autolube oil tank
Remember not to add 2T in the tank
Remember i have the use of indicators !
Remember to switch them off.

Ride.

I can feel a euro trip coming on!!

[henri]

you forgot 1 pertinent fact , how much , tho i think i saw a similar scoot on e bay recent that seemed cheap at the time, pm tuning pipes ive no experience of but are def rated on smalls ,nice spread of power band n torque there , keep the rally for nice days n kill the px in winter rain/salt ,with more use/regular riding should loosen up a bit , an how typical of a scooterist ,spend all that on gettin it tuned an skimp 15 quid on new mount rubbers , DOH, H

[sime66]

I looked at this last night, but you rather bombarded us with info in your excitement, so it wasn't until this morning that I pulled out the pertinent points about the new scoot, rather than others in your past. I confess I did go and have a bit of a look at it in your photobucket too; hope you don't mind. Engine sounds a blinder, and not too much work to do (though I'm sure you'll find plenty to fine-tune all over). As H said, it really boils down to how much it cost you. It's a 1983 PX125, with a 200EFL rebuilt engine, with a Malossi 210 top-end, nice shocks and exhaust etc, etc. Bit shabby on the outside (not that bad; show the lads) - it's all there - Happy New Scoot!

I see you getting this one sweet and reliable to keep scooting, while you pull the Rally apart again to scratch whatever it is that's bugging you there.............

[pxguru]

Going to be an interesting project. And like my new one will take a while.
Could make a 30bhp screamer keeping the 210 and with that late duration crankshaft out of your Rally Will need a disc brake first though!

[vespasco]

Im not so sure of turning it into a full blown screamer. I like the torques over power on these roads, on a vespa.
Its a bit early yet and yes i was excited. Still am tbh! The new cases is a great bonus, what with all the leaks ive been fixing on my knackered old set. Looking at the dynos and from the one ride ive had on it so far, i think the malossi has just been bolted on.
The PM Evo is almost identical to the SIP Performance, another superb pipe for a daily riders/fast road race vespa.
Its all kosher. Registered, insured and taxed as a 200, ill change that to 210, rather than what everybody else seems to be doing - buy a 125 vespa and stick in a p200 lump.
(I sold my SS180 redently, all original, a lovely motor, longer stroke crank as standard, full of torque and sounded so beautiful, like no other vespa ive heard of late. The sweet tone alone makes peoples heads turn. What was the first thing the new owner was going to do? 'Stick a p200 lump in it'! :0
I sold a perfect stock p200 lump recently too... what was that going in? A 8" vbb!?? Wtf?! There aint going to be any original scooters left. Oops! Im supossed to happy and excited! What happened!!? Sorry. :0

(Id better lighten the mood....

I havent heard many new tracks lately so stuck to a classic)

Full mot, tax runs out this month but its on the road already. Im just so busy at work to figure out what to do with it. £1054 btw. Not sale of the century. Its likely the same one you all saw. £699 for ages, few bidders, my £1100 bid won it by £50. I want to keep it but im safe in the knowledge it wont ever loose me money what ever i do with it. And whatever i do with it, it will be a damn fine reliable vespa!

To me, the new set of cases alone are worth a few £££s what with all the itches i want scratch on my Pinasco. I cant imagine theyre ported for the malossi.
Im not a big fan of the malossi as a daily rider, too much power up top, not enough Torquays lower down. Itll be fun though i may even grow to like it

(The Rally was built to stomp once on the kickstart and ride, ride, ride. Not a show piece for the summer)

Its quite possible ill leave it as is, after all the little tweaks the biggest/most awkward job will be changing the sponges in the mounting bushes.
Its early days yet, im still in the honeymoon period. I could even keep the motor and put it back to a stock 125 and sell it on!? Its in prety good condition really. Who knows what ill end up doing!!??

Im wondering, as theres no signs of rust, apart from on the paintwork scrapes, if it was spanish/italian originally?
I dont know a great deal about the chassis side of a PX . it starts to get complicated compared to my Rally for eg.
(Im talking, mainly wiring - indicators, more wires, autolube too...to me, its just more things that could potentially fail. For me, less is more

The guy had a set of disc brakes too, which he bought for that reason, as a separate lot, although yes, id love to have them and thought if i ever buy a px itll have to have disc brakes to make me really want to buy it and i certainly considered it, but tbh, i cba now - I can't be arts! hahaha

Its all there. Id rather not have to strip it down if it doesnt need it. But i will be doing everything to it to get it as a reliable bomber so i can jump on it and go to euroland comfortably, without worrying if it will get me back.... if i ever wanted to, just like my Rally. Thats my level of perfection, however high/low that is. Thats when i stop tweaking

But its possible i may swap a couple of parts for the purpose of vespa research. Who knows!? There's a few combinations to try
But I'm reluctant to strip it down as its a relatively fresh build.

My first instinct is to keep it as, an everyday mildly tuned bomber.

I do love that pipe tho'!!! Not so loud either. I dont like the ground clearance which is why it will never stay on my pinasco/rally...so many things to try...


Ok here ya go....

Its got 'Lets go to europe' written all over it

[henri]

its got "lets go anywhere" written all over it , beggar discs , if ya ridin beyond where drums can save ya your beyond your personal limits an the scoots handling , only advantage is there self adjusting , but too grabby/skiddy for me , i love drums ,more feel/feedback an better in the wet for me , its just a different style of ridin i guess , rather than disc if ya beg ive a set of cosa forks i might part with , without the hydraulics what ya get is practically a twin leading shoe set up , H

[vespasco]

The way i see it is,, ive been using a Rally with Rally forks... Once i uprated the shocks, the brakes and handling and just fine for my tuned motor. Again, less is more, its just even more things that could potentially fail. Simple is the best.
Same as H, i like to feel the brakes.
If the old rally brakes are sufficient enough for over 70mph then surely the px must be too? (Once its all adjusted correctly)
My Rally drum brakes are also self adjusting..... I adjust them myself

If i didnt have a wedding to go to this weekend id probably be bombing it round the country somewhere

[henri]

take the scoot ,bound to be a bridesmaid who fancies a go , old rules , a ride for a ride ,
another reason for not disc ing the px ,every time i use dads modern car over my un assisted drum brake 1 ,1st brakeing i kiss the windscreen , same as when going from scoot to disc brake bike ,cept i rattle me nuts on the tank there , you do adjust but it gets me everytime once . same-ish going from bike to scoot ,i'm squeezing brake lever an wondering why nothings happening ,then remember to really squeeze an just about stand scoot on its head . H

[vespasco]

I notice this scoot has an air filter under the seat (shot to bits by the look of it)
How exactly do i remove this? Do i have to lift out the tank?

Ill probably have lots of dumb PX questions!!

[sime66]

This?:



Here:

www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/air+filter+lml+for+chassis+_47186000

Don't know; haven't got one, never seen one on a scooter. Didn't know about them until someone asked about it on a FB page last week. Thought it was an LML thing. It's only a bit of plastic; suggest removed with 'adequate encouragement' (snap it off), and don't bother to replace. - However I stand to be corrected!  

[henri]

secondary filter ,lml an new catalysed px's i'm told , rip it ,bin it , an jet same as a normal px , tho i think this filter doesnt have such a strangling effect as the cosa secondary 1 did , so jetting might not need tweaking , H

[vespasco]

After a closer look its the foam thats insulating the chassis thats disintergrated.
I saw some foam in the air feed hole under rhe seat and thought it was another filter.
I didnt expect to see such a thing on s '83 plate.
Problem solved.
Theyll be more

[vespasco]

Ive been cleaning/checking stuff. Seems i have a lighter flywheel too!! The back of the flywheel looks way smaller and thinner than normal


Another slide i cant remember seeing before, with the mid range cutaway underneath


So i notice that the air feed is actually from the horn cover!? I shone a torch up through the carb box/ rubber hose and there wasn't much light coming through. Is that normal for a px?
If i removed some of the insulation foam im sure id get more air flow... Is that a normal mod. everybody does??
And i maybe even hear the pipe too!! Its quite quiet for a damn fine pipe...to which ive now added a spring from the pipe bracket to stop it sliding down the ali stub.

The carb needed a damn good clean out. The carb idle screw had been fully forced all the way in, bulging its way into the venturi. It cleaned up ok in the end and i carried out the usual mods...drilling all the inlet holes, chamfering the top inlet hole and slotted the idle screw for easy adjusting.

Ive also got my other air filter on it with drilled holes, and a few layers of mesh removed.

One thing i dont like is all the allen key bolts on it....more tools to carry and harder to torque.

All i need to buy , so far anyway, is an air filter screw, proper cdi bracket, plug for the starter motor hole, o ring for the PM pipe if there is such a thing, rubber washer/packer for the carb and a 5.2mm sprung needle for cosa float bowl top.
Not so bad!
And maybe another speedo as the fuel gauge needle doesn't go below 1/2 although the warning light works...again, if anyone has a working one kicking around?

When i refurb an si carb, i always set it up with idle mix screw 2 turns out and idle speed/slide set to 1/2 turn cranked open, tighten the throttle cable so it just starts to move the slide, another 1/2 turn on the idle speed screw. It always starts and is usually ok to take for a quick spin to warm the warm up. Fine tune the screws and throttle cable. Done.

Ive not put a timing gun on it yet but the stator was fully retarded, a bit like me with these dumb questions, so i nudge it a degree back again.

The crank is a stock 110°/6°
With inlet timing @ 104°/56°

I havent seen inside the top end as yet as it has an o ring seal, of which i dont have a spare so left it alone for now.

Ill get some more shock mounts for it...any recommendations?
I dont want rock solid but mid to firm would probably do.

I could do with another seat really, same type, if any one has one knocking around? Im not into shiny stuff.

[sime66]

STOP FIDDLING AND RIDE IT – IT’S BANK HOLIDAY!!

The air isn’t from the horncover, it’s from under the seat, into the void under the tank, and then carb box via hose – your Rally can’t be so different, is it?
(There should actually be a plastic tray to block up the channel through from the tunnel). What's all this foam you mention?

I’d love to see a little sketch/photo of these (usual mods) carb drillings and chamferings you do.

I suppose there’s a reason they changed over to allen keys on the carb. I’ve got old-fashioned studs and those shoulder-bolts on both my (82 & 83) PX engines. I like having studs, rather than threaded holes.

ALL YOU NEED TO BUY TODAY – OIL, PETROL – put the tools in the toolbox and ride!

Before it packed up a few years ago, my fuel gauge went from ½ to zero; it’s not really worth bothering with; you’ll spend a fortune on old speedos and something else will be wrong – just note your miles between filling – I go 100km as my guide. If your fours dummy lights work (three of them needed for MOT) on the speedo, and the speed and odometer are working, I’d leave well alone.

Enjoy your day; I’ll think about you with your spanners, while I’m out buzzing around the moors and coast today………………………………

[henri]

as sime says , your as bad as me ,bet soon as you got it home you started to take bits off , "just to see " , H

[vespasco]

Ahem! Yes, i kinda did, but only after a quick spin and a quick MDyno.
Yet, I done all my checking/spanner work yesterday, findings posted as above, all ready to ride off into the sunse... I mean storm clouds today.

I didnt fancy taking an unknown scooter on fast roads until i was satisfied the basics are all in order....ive never been one to presume that all the work carried out on this motor was done properly, no matter how much the previous owner paid.
I've done 2 x 100 miles round trips in the last few days plus another 20 miles testing it locally,.. Ive not pulled it all to bits!! (Not yet)?? its going to get some miles on it before i decide to do that...probably...

Ive always believed the air is fed from under the seat, the same as all other vespas...yet when i removed the tank, the inside is lined with foam! Ill take a pic and post it....but the foam seemed to be blocking the air feed ..and it didnt have the plastic tray either so i was left scratching my head trying to figure out the 'modern' vespa...
So you're saying this is not a factory thing? Good!
I can only imagine its there to reduce the noise?! But i shall be clearing that out of way v soon!

Everything else works on the speedo, ill probably leave it unless one pops up. I also gauge about 100km before i need a top up but with this new-to-me motor, the other day, it done about 40miles a gallon!!! Although i was playing with main jets!! Hahaha yes, i was tinkering too! So the fuel level is difficult to judge at the moment. For the past 25years Ive been used to having to switch to reserve to remind me i need some more fuel, fool-proof (almost) ...im sure theyll be a day when i dont see the warning light and run out of fuel

Question: how much fuel is there when the reserve comes on??


So actually ive also been busy doing just as you suggested, packed a few basic tools and spare cables, (as i havent checked the cable ends yet.)... and went for a spin.... Then bombing down the road, going sweet for about 10 minutes WOT, then suddenly.....the throttle went...! Crap!!! Then i remembered....i packed a bunch of cables so i should be ok!! If i packed the right tools to chanhe it! Luckily i was right next to a slip road so pulled off quick and coasted to a safe place to fix the cable..
Then i looked and saw, thankfully, it was only the hook for the autolube that had popped out.
This is why i like the 'less is more' approach when it comes to relying on more parts.
So i put it back on, set off, then again, it popped out.
I ended up bending it slightly so it stayed in and no more problems!! Tfft! I dont do AA if i can help it! Vespas are better than that.
I havent done side of the road repairs for quite a while either...thats why i like to make an effort checking all that i can...especially common potential problem areas such as spark plug, electrical connections, cables and carb...as its usually one of those things that would cause an embarrassing road side repair, bar punctures...(i hope i havent talked one up)!!
When you spot things like a home made cdi bracket, no rubber boot on the cdi, no air filter holes, sloppy handling, slack nuts and bolts, low power, etc, im sure youd check it out first
I found it starts cold no problem, starting warm, it doesnt like so much. As i found out, much to my embarrassment, outside a roadside cafe FULL of bikers! It started after about 20 kicks! Hahaha. Ill get the hang of it eventually. But this PX with big top box and 2 big mirrors, was almost invisible, even although i parked in front of everyone, (forgetting i wasnt on my Rally). It was invisible until i went to start it, as i knew theyd all be watching me, as while sitting there drinking tea, everytime time a bike started and roared off ALL other heads were turned and watching it. It was like a meercats advert.
On my Rally i can confidently hold my own ground amongst bikers and park where the hell i like. Hahaha. Ive been so used to confidently stomping once on the kickstart while im putting my gloves on. The Rally usually gets a little attention too, i get asked a few questions/maybe even paid a compliment by some bikers, especially if i slip in the fact that ive been to Morocco and back on it. That normally puts them in their place!! Hahahaha!! Vepsa is King!!! Respect

*note to self: Never sell the Vespa! (my Rally 200)

Anyway, I covered another 100+ miles on the PX today, mostly dual carraigeway 3/4 - WOT cruising, watching the fuel gauge needle go down when @ WOT..

I have to say, that generally, i quite like it, the motor at least... Im not so keen on the higher centre of gravity that the PX has compared to my Rally. . i was betting blown about all over the place...the rear top box probably didnt help! Yes i kept it on to see how it performs. And i carried a spare crash helmet in case any stray hitch hikers needed a lift.

I done a quick MDyno when i got back too, just now....the curve is more like the original dyno as there is a delay before it hits the power band but has gained about 50% more power!!!!
Just by adjusting what i already had


Much better
Theres still a couple of minor things to sort but generally, its a fine scooter and motor!!
But i can only ride one at a time and I will mostly be riding the Vespa the Rally. As im still talking about how great it is, even on a thread about my PX!! Hahahah!!!

I'll post the carb mods. later

[vespasco]

A more realistic comparison between when i first bought it, untouched (grey) and how it is at the moment (blue)
(The blue curve is actually the same file as above ^^^ but the one below was more accurately edited on my tablet, rather than a small screen phone)

[sime66]

He he, glad you’ve been out playin’ – of course we’d all do plenty of checks before some good-ridin’; don’t know if I’d have had the tank out or the flywheel off, or the carb in bits beforehand though. Not got a shed, but even so I’d much rather be doing the fixing at home beforehand, even in the garden, than on the side of the road.
But you have got a nice big toolbox on the PX, so plenty of room for tools and spares in there.
Deffo get rid of all that foam – someone’s good plan, now surplus to requirements.
Without any urgency to buy one myself, I watch the price of every EFL speedo that goes through Ebay, or comes up on Facebook (only the old, black one – not the modern ones); if one slips through the net cheap I’ll grab it, but as I said before, if yours (and mine) only has one non-essential (for MOT) bit not working, you’re just as likely to spend £40+ one that has a different problem. I think I’m more likely to get a SIP speedo sometime, but I can’t get past how ugly the SIP PX ones are. – Have you checked-out the sender?
Mine’s always was a cow to start before I rebuilt it, also mainly only a problem when warm. The only time it really seemed to be fixed was after my rebuild last year, when I also replaced stator, CDI and all the HT; after that it was great (half-a-kick), even all through last winter; two or three kicks after sometimes weeks outside in the cold and wet. Just recently it’s started playing up again; initially when warm, or after a long ride when cooled down, but the other morning it took loads of kicks. I’ve done all the first obvious checks (electrics, carb, air leaks) but I’m just hoping it keeps going until I put the new engine in after the end of September(ish). Other than this little starting niggle, (and a bit of a leak around my patched-up drain too, but it’ll last a few more months), I’ve had no unexpected mechanical issues this year, mainly due to good maintenance and regular checks. I think most reliability problems can be eliminated with a good set-up, well maintained. (Still got a toolbox stuffed with everything though).
Good MicroDyno after a bit of a tweak, eh. – Well done, not as smooth as the Rally curve though – but you’ve done some fine tweaking to get the Rally one where it is too. – I put it side-by-side with the last Rally one you posted, but I’m not sure that one’s up to date, so didn’t spend too much time comparing.
Looks like a Grand well spent anyway though – well done!

You've added some MD stuff since I started composing my reply; no matter - I'm only giving words of encouragement, nothing important.......

[vespasco]

Done some more checks, altered a couple of bits back to o they should be...found some more loose bolts holding the pipe on
Then i adjusted rear brake. No problem
Front brake was making a noise!
Took the hub off..looking and feeling told me this hub has never been removed?! Shot to bits!
I took hold of the hub assembly by the 2 x shock bolts and there was loads of play, even with tje hub on and tightened up.
Ive just placed an order with Beedy for a new hub kit.

Am i right in thinking if i undo the shock bolts the whole hub will slide off...with the cables attached...? Do the bearings knock out/in easy enough? or am i going to need it on the bench?
I know ive done it once before but can i remember??

Im still tempted to turn it back to a 125, sell it, then put the 210 motor in the P200

Anyone got a spare 125 motor!?

[henri]

damm youve already ordered hub bearings ,ive a set n backplate bearings kickin around you could of had for postage , shock bolts n hub nut an it will practically fall off , the bearings are quite easy but to be sure of gettin em square an saving ya back loose the cables an do it on the bench ,its loads easier , H

[vespasco]

Oh well! Thanks anyway H

[henri]

your welcome , i owe ya the favour anyway , just 1 thing , can ya stop pullin this scoot apart n get sum miles in , a few artful piccys of scoot out n about would be appreciated ,an as ya a "flatlander" the odd windmill or church spire in background would be appreciated , anything to draw the eye away from that fugeugly seat , still cant rid myself off the mental image of it on a cosa , nothin for it ,i'm off to stick a toothbrush up my nose n scrub my brain clean of the travesty off it , H

[vespasco]

Hahah!
I took it for a slow spin yesterday, despite the front hub and ive spent today recovering from last nights shannigans and changed all the front bearings and seals. Now its nice and tight and the front brakes work
It took me all afternoon! My head!! It didnt help that the shim on the back of the hub was still firmly rusted on, even although i swear i took that off earlier. So when i put a new shim on, thinking there was only one, the circlip wouldnt fit. Try as i did to make it fit! Doh!
Hair of the dog might be a good idea now ive finished the scoot.