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Post by sime66 on Oct 2, 2014 11:20:38 GMT
Chaps,
We’ve brushed this subject before, but I’ve got to make my mind up now and order something for fixing my new floor runners after I've sorted the rust on my scooter. I don’t want to use the rivets that come with the kit – seems like a lot of unnecessary work. – I think I might have to use them for the end ones, but I’ll deal with that when I get to it.
So, · 3.2mm pop-rivets and washers in the channels only? If so from top or from underside? or, · M3 stainless bolts (10mm?), and either nylock nuts or stainless domed nuts, I think in each case a washer in channel and on nut, maybe a spring washer with the domed nut, or threadlock?
Any opinions and advice appreciated – or previous c**k-ups shared, so not repeated by me…..
....and while I'm at it, do I drill the old one's out from the top or underside?
Thanks.
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Post by sime66 on Oct 2, 2014 12:05:01 GMT
The best option to me at the moment seems to be: 1. Paint the uppers and then Hammerite, underside, 2. Fit the rails (My preference at moment is stainless bolts, washers and nyloc nuts) 3. Re-Hammerite underside to cover nuts. That way the rails are removable for future rust treatment, but don’t show as a row of shiny nuts. I’m still open to suggestions, but will order the fixings for that in the morning unless advised against it.
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Post by bryno on Oct 2, 2014 12:15:23 GMT
If you do a nice job sorting the rust you'll probably never have to tackle it again.
I'd stick with pop rivets personally as I think they will look neater, they go in from the top, but check your rivet gun will fit inside the channel.
I grease where the runners will go before I put them on, just helps keep any water which will sit on the floor from getting to the paint under the runners and starting the rust problem again.
And grease the rivet holes, again helps seal from any water to metal contact.
But if you want to be able to get them off again, very small nuts and screws will be fine, I have used tiny M4 or M3's in the past on the runner ends, need to have fairly flat heads though or your rubbers wont seat right in the channels without trimming them a bit over each nut head.
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Post by sime66 on Oct 2, 2014 12:43:36 GMT
Thanks bryno
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Post by henri on Oct 2, 2014 14:19:57 GMT
i always use galvanised 4b bolts 15mm long ,ya can trim em in center but there long enough for endcaps , the solid rivets are a pain ,sip do the tool but its 71 quid ,as bryno says a lot of pop rivet guns dont fit into channel, so i use the bolts i can get from local "nut&bolt" store in packs of ten ,with nuts/flat n spring washers there about 2 quid a pack , an for the 4 at front that show 4 nylocks at 10p a throw , you'll need if memory serves 32 bolts n nuts ,in st/steel that soon adds up, specially if ya go nylock . if ya cant find em local google namrick ,thats the name of nut n bolt store online ,find what ya want an tot it up an pm me ,i can grab em nxt time i'm there n probably undercut there postage rate a touch . ok, H
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Post by sime66 on Oct 2, 2014 15:13:32 GMT
Righto chaps, I’ve ended up ordering both to keep my options open; I don’t mind adding to my stock of tools and hardware, and it gives me choices when I’m doing it. Have taken on board those extra bits of knowledge you’ve both included though, cheers – will keep you posted……
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Post by bryno on Oct 2, 2014 15:23:18 GMT
I ground the sides of the nib on my pop riveter down on the bench grinder, fits floor channels now ;-)
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Post by sime66 on Oct 2, 2014 15:30:01 GMT
I anticipate a bit of trickery needed there, too. Had thought about a bit of Dremel Wizardry (no bench, let alone a grinder : if required on a spare tip, or I also read about someone using something like a smaller nut inside the channel. (rivet, then nut over the shank before tool). I like to plan ahead, but it's one of those ones best sorted when I've got the bits in me hands I think.
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Post by rab on Oct 2, 2014 18:03:18 GMT
i ground one side of the rivet so it was half moon shaped for ease fitting in the track as the sip plates needed bigger holes for the bolts leaving bigger holes to rivet so had to use larger rivets. put washers on the underside and held in place with my finger until i felt the rivet expand enough to let go . if you rivet from above the rubber fits back in and if you need to take them back off at any point your grinding to cut them free from the underside and not damaging any paint on the floor
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Post by vespasco on Oct 2, 2014 18:23:58 GMT
I've used a pop rivet gun before, with great results. But I can't remember how I got the gun tip to fit... Grinder probably! Or just pushed it in as far as poss and go for it. :-) I've also used the ali' rivets , which is a fiddly way to do it with just one pair of hands, the outer ones are quite easy, the inner ones are a bit trickier.. For the end caps I used a 1/4" drive small socket as a punch for the head of the rivet, which also gives a nice star pattern to finish it off, looks almost 'factory like' .. Cut the rivets to length first and use a nice small but heavy hammer... A heavy block is also useful on the other end..they're also easy to remove. I don't like the bolt idea but its just my personal taste...they look too big and its something else that can fall off! :-D
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Post by sime66 on Oct 2, 2014 19:23:48 GMT
Thanks for that, vespasco. I've pretty much decided I'm going to make my mind up when I go to do it because, now I've got some other views, both options have benefits: - I agree that I'd prefer them discrete like they are now, rather than making a feature of a row of stainless nuts, but - Although I'm going to do my very best with the rust first, I can see an advantage in having the runners removable in case do I need to have another go. I got the stuff ordered, which was the job that needed doing now. So, I'll weigh it up, when I've got the holes in the floor, the new channels, and both sets of fixings, and see which is going to be easiest to fix, most secure, looks best, and maybe most practical for future. Well worth asking though, to get some experienced opinions before I tackle it. Busy this weekend, stripping scoot, removing paint and rust - the weather will dictate if I go further with kurust, paint and Hammerite......
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mickymidas
High Number
2Ronnies sc , Nuneaton.....Promoting chuckleism to the masses
Posts: 232
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Post by mickymidas on Oct 3, 2014 7:55:19 GMT
When I stripped my Rally for painting I replaced the rivets with small M3? flat headed bolts with a allen key fitting so the rubber passed over the top easily and stainless domed nuts underneath, just in case I needed to remove them again in the future.
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Post by sbwnik on Oct 3, 2014 11:15:45 GMT
A mate used countersunk 3mm bolts with nylocks, he had to drill the holes to fit the countersink heads though, then cut the threads flush with the nuts. That way nothing protruded and it looks good too.
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Post by Vespresso on Oct 4, 2014 7:27:21 GMT
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Post by sime66 on Oct 4, 2014 9:59:40 GMT
I'm really glad you posted those. I knew someone had, and I'd commented on them at the time, but I couldn't find the thread - thanks for that. It does look smart; not sure if I'm ever going to get the showroom look, and I don't mind it looking its age in a way, as long as I've done a good job of the rust mainly. If I were doing a beautiful respray, I'd go for that for certain. I've started a new thread now because I got stripping last night and this morning, so I'll continue there, including an eventual decision on the fixings....
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