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Post by bigd on Sept 23, 2014 19:24:42 GMT
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Post by bryno on Sept 23, 2014 20:22:20 GMT
That carb box bolt won't help, you should have a small countersunk screw under the carb holding the box on, is that there? Then usually the carb bolts are studs in the casing with a couple of sleeve bolts to take up the slack between the studs and the holes in the carb so the carb is perfectly seated and centred.
Usually people block off the end of the autolube pipe with a bit of tube and a bolt in the end... Personally if it were mine I'd remove the autolube drive shaft from the engine itself and all the autolube mechanism from the box then blank the hole with a grommet, but I'm like that ;-)
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Post by sime66 on Sept 23, 2014 20:47:53 GMT
That bodged bolt looks a bigger diameter to me too; I wonder if you've had a stripped thread in the casing, retapped and then that lot there improvised. The links I posted at the end of your previous 'spark plug' thread have images of the studs, and the carb box screw bryno refers to. An example of the stud, sleeve bolt, washer and spring washer can be found here: www.sip-scootershop.com/ersatzteile/Vespa%20PX/Carburettor++Carburettor+Casing-255(but if you've got a dodgy thread it might be a bit more complicated). Bryno has answered about the oil line, which is good 'cos I wasn't sure. |
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Post by vespasco on Sept 23, 2014 20:48:29 GMT
That looks like a relatively easy thing to sort out..
Lap the airbox gasket face, new gaskets, proper carb bolts, block off autolube.. Jobs a good 'un.
Then you can start plug chopping!!!
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Post by bigd on Sept 23, 2014 21:12:08 GMT
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Post by vespasco on Sept 23, 2014 21:42:26 GMT
I mean..... The air box case is probably/ maybe warped...so make it straight/true/flat again..!!! One process is known as 'lapping'... Use a sheet of glass as a true/flat surface, placed flat on a bench, with a sheet of wet n dry on top...about 600 grit?? Anybody? 400? Take the box in your hand and in a circular .motion, or figure of 8, and with even pressure, sand down the gasket face until is perfectly flat again..you can do the same to the base/gasket face of the carb too!!
Try a search for more details on how to do this if not sure....(I use a marker pen to help define any low/high spots)
When you come to assemble again use new gaskets, smeared all over with a little grease either side and torque down gently/correctly with your new nuts/bolts
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Post by bigd on Sept 23, 2014 22:01:32 GMT
Cheers mate, just a bit worried that the new studs and bolts won't fit the threaded hole that the shorter bolt was in but will give it a go.
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Post by vespasco on Sept 23, 2014 22:07:46 GMT
If the threads in the cases are kaaput there are oversized studs that go into the cases yet are the same/proper size for the carb. Youll have to try a search for them. Maybe Beedy do them..? SIP probably do if not.
*Edit. Im not so sure now, I may have been thinking about cylinder studs!?
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Post by bigd on Sept 24, 2014 7:22:12 GMT
Would some form of thread weld be strong enough to hold the new stud?
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Post by henri on Sept 24, 2014 9:42:52 GMT
for a carb stud at 14ft/lb-15 , you could bodge with jb weld ,it will take the torque an heat easily ,ive had to use it on some badly helicoiled exhaust studs on my bike recently ,3000 miles later there still holding , you'd have to really clean up the cases first ,acetone n ear buds i guess ,an make sure it doesent overflow onto gasket face n ruin sealing area , its like araldite but more runny,
an i think vespaco was thinking of oversize cylinder studs that beedys/sip do in whitworth threads , for carb boxes most people go up a size in metric threads an tap a new thread n use a nut an washers ,relying on the undamaged other carb nut to locate the carb ,
an when vespaco talks of lapping you can start with fine wet n dry on a sheet of glass but for real perfect flatness grinding paste applied directly to a sheet of new plate glass ,(new as in not ground on before) was what i was always advised/did for cylinder head gasket faces ,usually kept a eye open after saturday night for guys fixing/replacing broken shop windows an begged a right size fragment .H
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Post by bigd on Sept 24, 2014 9:54:26 GMT
Thanks for the advice lads, parts ordered from Beedspeed, hopefully get it sorted over the weekend, thanks Darren.
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Post by bigd on Sept 24, 2014 19:17:01 GMT
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Post by bigd on Sept 25, 2014 11:22:47 GMT
With my auto lube disconnected is the oil cog drive shaft coming out of the casing excess to requirements?
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Post by vespasco on Sept 25, 2014 16:53:40 GMT
Is that a stock triangualr inlet?
If you're going to disconnect the oil feed then yes its surplus to requirements. Take it out and block off the hole.
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Post by rab on Sept 25, 2014 20:11:49 GMT
id be tempted to get some thicker gasket paper and make a clone of your gasket to compensate for slight warp to be on the safe side
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Post by bryno on Sept 25, 2014 20:14:49 GMT
Yes as said you can lift out that autolube shaft and also take all the hubbies out of the carb box and stick a grommet in the air box hole.
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Post by bigd on Sept 25, 2014 20:49:20 GMT
Cheers Bryno, the countersunk screw under the carb holding the box on was in place mate, had a look at removing the autolube mechanism but my throttle cable is attached to a pivot arm on the top of it.
Vespasco, not sure what you mean by stock triangular inlet, its a T5 engine with a 172 kit so I'm not sure if something has been tampered with mate.
Rab, the new gasket I got does seem to be that bit thicker than the one I removed.
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Post by rab on Sept 25, 2014 21:15:06 GMT
could be an lml gasket then they are a touch thicker but just as good
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Post by bryno on Sept 26, 2014 7:55:08 GMT
Cheers Bryno, the countersunk screw under the carb holding the box on was in place mate, had a look at removing the autolube mechanism but my throttle cable is attached to a pivot arm on the top of it. Vespasco, not sure what you mean by stock triangular inlet, its a T5 engine with a 172 kit so I'm not sure if something has been tampered with mate. Rab, the new gasket I got does seem to be that bit thicker than the one I removed. Cool, I'd take the gear out of the engine and just remove the metal oil pipe from the box then so you can blank off the hole in the box properly.. Actually, what I would do is swap the box with an earlier pre-autolube type to tidy it all up (Sprint, Rally, TS, GT, etc will fit but you would need to dremel the outlet a tad to suit the 24mm carb), but it's not essential ;-) |
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Post by sime66 on Sept 26, 2014 20:10:14 GMT
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Post by bigd on Sept 27, 2014 17:27:52 GMT
That's it all put back together and the engine turned over fine and the thread weld seems to have gotten a good grip, hopefully get a we run out in the morning 1st thing, before I go fishing, once I see what my heads like, lol.
Thank you everyone for your input, your knowledge is priceless lads!!
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Post by vespasco on Sept 28, 2014 10:43:38 GMT
I hope it All goes well for you.
On another note.... Its the first time ive noticed such a mod' as the 'triangualr' inlet for the carb, on the air box and cases....
Has anybody tried a similar thing on a stock si 20/20 or 24/24 carb for 125/150/200 ?? And with what results?
Im guessing the T5 carb being shorter, faster air flow, has something to do wirh this??
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Post by sime66 on Sept 28, 2014 11:03:02 GMT
I just bought that carb box, that I pointed out to Darren above - for .99p
The reason is that I'm going to open it out to suit my 24/24 carb (And casings sometime (soon)?)
BUT - what actual difference it might make is something I was hoping you clever blokes might answer.......
(I'm not sure it is a mod on the T5, are you? - That's why I posted the gasket image above; it looks like the standard inlet is triangular, but I don't know.)
((Well done BigD - you know it makes sense!! - Now you can chop properly))
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Post by vespasco on Sept 28, 2014 11:30:38 GMT
The mod' i mentioned... I mean the mod' as done by Piaggio as compared to most other si carbs. The shorter faster flowing venturi on the T5 carb must mean it sucks in more air and faster too, into crankcase so the case needs a larger more flowed inlet.?!? Its still early in morning for me! Ive always admired the T5 engine. Never had one to play with tho'. Ive considered doing a 200 version of a T5 engine but not looked into it too much. Lots of porting  (Although I have restored a PX200 GS , the T5 body with a 200efl engine). The air box im using with my 24/24e is actually for a 20/20 but i opened up for the 24mm carb inlet. Im sure i 'flowed' the bottom of the air box into the cases too, without opening up the cases anymore. Ill double check when i get time to pull carb n exhaust as im going to do a compression if i can find something suitable to bung the holes. So far ive found a rubber door stop, hopefully it will fit the carb, and a rubber ball for the exhaust outlet. Im also considering pulling my spare, stock motor apart to use the cases. Im sure mine are f'd. But will see after I investigate more. 2 engine rebuilds to do ! ? |
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Post by bigd on Sept 28, 2014 19:17:56 GMT
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Post by bigd on Sept 30, 2014 11:20:56 GMT
I also learned that to get the airfilter off on a T5 carb you have to remove the idle screw, bit of a b*ll** having to reset the idle when you put it all back together.
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Post by bigd on Sept 30, 2014 18:40:17 GMT
Cheers Gaz, would have been better if it was the same as the PX and not need to touch it though.
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(Although I have restored a PX200 GS , the T5 body with a 200efl engine).