Will these rims fit? Advice much appreciated.

[tranquilitybase]

I would be very grateful for advice on the following rims for sale on ebay:

Re items 221521234876 and 221521290105

I've emailed the seller to ask if they will fit my 1964 Sportique Douglas. He says they will. Can anyone advise me if they are likely to fit please?

[tranquilitybase]

I should have said...."Ace Face" (Henri) kindly pointed them out to me....Many thanks H.

[henri]

they look the real deal ,an vbb1t n 2t rims are same offset/stud spacing as douglas ,dont know the seller tho ,just it was easyier finding them than moving all the crap in garage to see if ive a good pair you could have , an please dont call me ace face ,as anybody who's actually seen me will confirm there aint nothin ace bout this ugly mug ,H

[bryno]

Yes, that 2nd one is most likely an indian repro item, personally I'd hold out for another OE.

Dont forget to get some of the original 11mm wheel nuts, 13's just don't look right.. ;-)

[tranquilitybase]

Bryno. Would you say the first one (painted gray) is worth buying then?

OK H. I thought I should refer to you by your "nom de plume" and have just realised it's a term used on the forum. Apologies. I didn't mean to offend. I'm a bit slow when it comes to forums, blogs and the like. It's an age thing. I feel happier with a spanner (or guitar) in my hand/s.

[henri]

i did wonder bout the second 1 as its zinc coated ,not a piaggio practice ,but same seller n description ,no offence taken mate ,just didnt want to get a swelled head an start lookin in mirrors/shop windows/shiny things,as when shaving i usually start a argument with the guy in mirror,
at the money i'd prob still buy it if i needed new rims as its a english seller at same price from india ,basic engineering like stamping out rims the indians are good at ,just not electonics sumtimes,an any itialian supplyer probably manufacters in the east anyway, check out allstyles scoots on tinterweb for the proper 11mm a/f m10 nuts i'm sure they sell them , an the rims aswell ,assured quality an price aswell,
any "piaggio" genuine rim is going to be 40 years old ,OE means same as original specs ,an payin by paypal/e bay to a english seller gives ya sum protection,so long as ya try n fit it within 90 days an complain if faulty in same time frame . H

[tranquilitybase]

You are right H. Assuming the price doesn't rise too much it has to be worth it. He's got a front suspension spring advertised as well, so I'll probably bid for that too.

I'll let you know how it went later today. Thanks again to you and Bryno for the advice/opinions. I'd be totally "in the dark" without you guys on this forum.

[tranquilitybase]

I won all three rims on ebay! The seller is going to sort out combining postage so the three will cost me just under £40. So that's about £13 per rim delivered.

Considering the condition of the two rims I already have, I'm happy with that (as long as they fit!).

Thanks again H for pointing them out to me.

[henri]

you'll have fun with a new spring ,as nobody sells them the right length that ive found , on 8" there 135mm if memory serves,will measure 1 later to confirm ,all new 1's are at least 145mm an wont fit in ,ive a cut-off saw base my grinder fits into ,machine mart 25quid, an a ultra thin cut off disc ,does a straight cut ,can be done with a grinder/dremel with spring in vice but care must be taken that end is square to length of spring , an any re-chromed spring is doubtful aswell ,as chroming takes the temper out of them an there too soft ,same deal with hot-zinc plating .fun isnt it eh ,buyin spares for a scoot , H

[tranquilitybase]

Ahhh.. I'm glad I mentioned the spring H. The ebay one is 160mm long and mine is 158mm long. It was tricky getting it out...ie a bit tight. I think it might have been Bryno who told me it wouldn't fly through the garage roof if I persevered.

If mine's 158mm and the new one is 160mm do you think this would go back in?

The other issue of plating I hadn't considered. This one has been plated. Would you advise against buying it? (The ebay item number is 221522081229)

[tranquilitybase]

I found some info re nickel plating. (Link below). Maybe it doesn't affect the temper??

www.thomasnet.com/articles/custom-manufacturing-fabricating/electro-plating-process

[tranquilitybase]

I didn't buy that spring, so my last posting is irrelevant now.

[henri]

done right chroming wont kill the temper ,hot zinc always does , the diff from 158 to 160 is probably your one settled an the 160 will fit,bit of a struggle,
just checked in shed ,an the figures above are wrong,crap memory sorry, the spring i'm putting in a 4 stud ,nuts on end of link n trunnion pins is 155mm, an it fits as it came out that leg, the 5 stud link n trunnion held by keeper-plate n bolt i did a week ago i had to cut to 160mm an it was a bugger to get in, the new spring meant for that fork,part of a stalled project me n mate bought is 170mm long ,its a 10" leg n link by the way, the other new spring i got from a good shop is 165mm long an for a 10" set-up. typical vespa parts eh,ya takes ya choice,pays ya money,an then have to fettle to fit,not just vesps but scoots in general.
have seen somebody who managed to fit a over long spring,he brought it to me as it looked funny , coils touchin 1 side n bowed out tother ,looked loaded an ready for bear, destroyed the trunnion pin gettin it out an nearly took my head off never mind the bear ,
nickel plating is done cold an can be done at home ,so could cold chroming if it wasnt for the fumes, hot chroming an zinc treatments if not done right take the temper out of springs ,after zinc it can be re-tempered but it would burn an discolour chrome .what was wrong with old spring ,wire wheel the outside,sillit-bang the rest,leave to soak 12 hours ,wash loads n dry ,etch prime an wheel silver, a bit of copper grease where its ends fit an stick it back in, hours work n 12 quid saved , an you know it will fit as it came out an was tight so not sagged, then fit the best damper ya can find ,the springs last,the dampers dont, H

[tranquilitybase]

Right. That's interesting H. Yes, the spring will probably be fine if I tart it up. Good point! I have a mate who has bead (not sand) blasted some parts for me (where he works), and done a cracking job of them. Would it be OK to do the spring in this way?

Talking of de-rusting...Have you seen the stuff on Youtube about using molasses for this? 1 part molasses to 9 parts water, leave it in for about 2 weeks, and the results are amazing...Total removal of rust!

[henri]

you can also use potatoes ,an get better results if kept warm , but it stinks , last months practical classics did a comparison test on spuds n molasses an 2 others i cant remember ,i got the sillit-bang tip from smallframe forum an it works ,but can leave stuff purple/black so only use on stuff being painted , blasting a spring is fine ,there heavy enuff to take it an beads wont mark the surface so it wil look brand new ,
remembered sumting else ,the rims ya got where i think zinc plated/galvanised ,1 off em ,you'll def have to use etch primer on it ,as normal primer wont adhere an will crack/shrink back, 2 thick coats an it seals it so other paints can get a grip, had a problem painting sum big washers for suspension on car as i'd got galvanised 1's, etch primer then weld thru primer (its zinc rich )then any paint will take ,original rims n hubs where body colour ,but that looks too "busy" to my eye ,so i usually do like others n use wheel silver ,an if i'm being fancy put laquer on aswell to bring up the shine facter, H

[tranquilitybase]

OK thanks H. I'll get my mate to blast the spring I think. Yes, I will etch prime first and then use some VW silver which I've already got (aerosol).

I'll do the same with the rims (when they arrive) but I'm going to keep the colours as original as possible. I'll do the rims, hub, brake back-plate and the lower part of the fork tube in Old English White.

[tranquilitybase]

Hhhmm. On the other hand...I spotted a spring for sale on ebay (link below) and asked its length. I've just discovered they have replied today, and it's 160mm. If mine is 158mm, it's probably the right one.

Do you know anything about the company selling? They have 99.9% positive feedback, which is obviously pretty good, but I read the negative feedback and was put off yesterday. Maybe I'm being silly about it. What do you think?

cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200918766137

[henri]

have used resurection scoots before an they were ok, i never really consider the feedbacks unless its under 90% , if youve ever tried leaving negative feedback or naming n shaming on e bay you find its rigged by e bay to be hard/impossible .
an stainless isnt really the right material to make a spring from , if ya want a "show scoot" its fine but if ya want to actually ride it a bit i'd worry about cracking from metal fatigue as the chromiun in st/steel makes it more brittle.you can make good springs from stainless but i doubt if it could be done right for a tenner a pop,at that price it will def be grade 3/4 which will rust eventually ,only marine 7/8 grade wont rust an costs a lot more ,your original spring will be better , an the new galvanised spring i bought years ago an never fitted was advertised as 160mm an turned up at 165mm, cant remember who i got it from .H

[tranquilitybase]

Thanks H.

I'm conscious of hassling you at every step, but you do help me make decisions. Your experience is a fantastic asset. I'll take my spring to my mates place this afternoon for him to blast this week. Decision made....Many thanks.

[bryno]

Bit late but I just meant that the one which looked cadnium plated was probably Indian, they will all fit, there is only one stud patten for the 2 piece 8" wheels.

Re Spring, I'd certainly get the one closest to 160, as you now know they are a pig to get out, equally hard to get back in! there are stiffer ones available which you may want to consider, takes some of the dive out of the front end though I've stuck with the original on my Rally, you get used to diving like a U-boat!

[tranquilitybase]

OK thanks Bryno.
I have bought all three wheels but decided to get my spring blasted.
The seller said in the ebay ad that the plated wheels are Piaggio. Time will tell.
Many thanks again.

[bryno]

Cool, I'd be supprised if Piaggio have made any 8" rims since 1965!

Sure they will do the job, good call on the spring, I had mine zinc plated (not chrome) it was as close to the original finish as I could find and I'd much rather use the old part than some remade item of unknown quality..

[tranquilitybase]

On the subject of the spring...Has anyone ever thought of making a small compressor? I know the coils are pretty close to start with but all those gaps add up and I bet the total shortening of a compressed spring would mean it would fit in much easier. I was wondering whether to try adapting two old G clamps I've had lying around for decades.

[henri]

most use loads of cable ties on scoot springs ,as if ya thin down the legs on a compressor to fit between coils there not man enuff to do the job often, use as many ties as ya can get on an keep face/head out of line of fire , 2 thinnish strips of steel an a g clamp on each end should work tho, might have to knock 1 up for myself oneday , might be a bit fiddly/3 hand job to compress but would make getting pins in loads easyier an less chance of damaging ends/bearings as ya do it , H

[bryno]

It's hard to compress it off the scoot and I dont think you'll shorten it much, tbh it's not that hard to get back in assuming you have the right length spring.

BUT you will trash your freshly painted fork leg unless you stick a piece of card around it. I tend to assemble with forks off the scoot and without mudguard, screw into bottom mount, screw top mount to the spring and just lever top of spring down with a screwdriver to pop the top thread back into the forks..

Slightly easier said than done

[tranquilitybase]

OK many thanks. I'll try to get it in the Bryno way. I think I'm a couple of weeks off this yet though as my free time is limited. Good point about protecting the fresh paint. I had wondered about that.

[henri]

another tip on spring cleanin , domestos limescale remover ,havent used it myself but been told its good an dont discolour like sillit bang , an bryno's cardboards a good tip , also the split foam pipe lagging can be used aswell, H

[tranquilitybase]

Good tips! I'll give them a try - thanks H.