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Post by Vespresso on Aug 17, 2014 15:37:50 GMT
I am completely gutted. Last weekend I finished the restoration of my Mk1 P200E, total strip down to bare metal and painted in Old English White celly, after a few mishaps, and a couple of extra coats I got the finish to a standard I was happy with (very happy with), went straight through the MOT on Monday, and got some very nice compliments from the examiner (an old biker), on what a lovely job I have done. Took it to my local scooter club Monday night and again some nice compliments on such a good job. Took it for a spin this morning, about 20miles, got back and found the paint has now started to react, the horn casing and headset top I thought might as plastic with no flexing agent (was advised that as they are small items, might get away with it), but on the mudguard and both side panels I can't understand, although the frame and headset both seem to be ok (at the moment). I was meticulous in the perpetration, and ensured the environment was clean and dry, why would this react after so long, I can only assume it is some way down to the vibration, I am so down about it now!
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Post by henri on Aug 17, 2014 16:05:35 GMT
buggeration an dammnation , feel for ya ,had similar but not same s##t happen to me an its a real heartbreaker,
did ya paint it all in one ,or was the frame n headset done seperate to muddy n panels, i know the only way ya want to look at ya scoot right now is prob as it burns in a field but some good pictures of the damage might give us a clue to whats gone on ,do ya know any local pro painters ya cud show it too or where the paint was bought ,when ya say react ,wat do ya mean ,star cracks=too much paint,whitish bloom =to wet air wen spraying,by sayin caused by vibration i'm guessing flaking off/not bonded to paint layer below, after mishaps how long before extra coats were put on ,as there is a optimum 2 weeks limit ,or its advised to wait until paint is fully hardened/aged bout 6 months before painting over ,ive never had probs before after spraying topcoat over under coats up to a month later ,but have been told you can get adhesion probs,
best thing ,walk away ,have a stiff 1 or 2 an try not to get too downhearted ,or too drunk,you'll only end up "fixing it permanetly" with the biggest hammer ya got , scoots eh, youve got to love em as they drive ya insane n bankrupt ,H
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Post by Vespresso on Aug 18, 2014 6:41:03 GMT
Hi Henri, thanks for the reply. Can't work out how to post photos on here? The reaction on the headset which appeared in front of my eyes is like a spiders web, similar pattern on the lower part of the horn casing. The side panels and mudguard, it's like they have had strands of thread under the paint and then been peeled off, leaving raised lines, not all over but maybe 4 or 5 about 2 inches long randomly over the panels, and look like they have a couple of thumb prints on them while the paint was tacky. The tool box, lower headset and frame all seem fine so far, so not worth trashing the scoot or committing suicide just yet!! All parts were primed at the same time but top coats were applied at different times, and the coats went on within days of each other, and most the same day, can't remember which parts were done at the same time though, although the frame and mudguard were done together as I got a nasty run on both (mishaps), the weather was dry on all occasions. The reason I think it's down to vibration is as it has sat in my garage for week, then the faults just appeared in front of my eyes as I was riding it, assuming that the paint was moving? After speaking to a mate, it turns out I may have used the wrong primer, I didn't use an etch primer, I used a filler primer although the paint shop said it should be ok on steel (not so good on alloy), I didn't realise that there were different primers! Funny how it all happened at the same time, it has been painted for a few weeks now, maybe even a couple of months!
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Post by kru251 on Aug 18, 2014 16:59:18 GMT
I can't offer words of wisdom or fantastic advice but will offer my heartfelt commiserations. We have all done that sort of thing where a great job goes wrong even when you feel you've done everything just right. Good luck with the MKII paint job!!!
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Post by rab on Aug 18, 2014 19:51:34 GMT
i feel for you fella a lot of hard graft cracking in front of you is heart breaking . The cracks you have if im correct are spiderweb cracks usually caused by too much hardener in the paint. The paint dries and hardens too fast then it develops surface cracks.i cant see it being too much paint as that would cause sagging and too mutch thinners would cause ripples and parting paint like rough crack lines same as contamination
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Post by shipscat on Aug 18, 2014 20:58:50 GMT
hi vespresso when you say "celly" do you mean cellulose paint ?
1 of the problems with celly paint is if you apply too much too quickly you get solvent entrapment which can cause a lot of problems "mud cracking ,crazing, wrinkling , solvent popping , same goes for 1 part primers too
spray painting when there is too much humidity causes "blooming" paint appears dull milky and can cause the colour to change the only fix for this is repaint in better conditions
if you press and remove your finger on the affected areas can you see your finger print ?
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Post by Vespresso on Aug 18, 2014 21:48:24 GMT
Thanks for the empathy guys and the thoughts on the cause. It could well have been solvent entrapment, that would make sense. The headset top is the worst effected which I'm not too concerned about as I'll replace that. However, I may have had a bit of luck, this evening I took the horn casing off and wet flatted it and with a foam head on a DA mop and some T cut, I managed to polish out the affected area and the same on the mudguard, so may have got away with it, it looks pretty good at the mo, not as nice as the gun finish I had before, but got ride of the grazing/spider web. Gonna try the same with the side panels over the next few days, keeping my fingers crossed that it doesn't come back. The frame and tool box still seem ok, so it's not as much doom n gloom as originally thought, I'd love to share some photos, how do I post them on here?
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Post by henri on Aug 19, 2014 11:27:59 GMT
filler/primer should of been ok , etch is just for first coat over bare steel ,you always cover it with normal primer aswell before topcoats ,was all sprayed by gun cept the etch ,i get mine in cans as its a 2pac type stuff for a gun,as if filler primer was from a can you can get solvent reaction problems ,tho rabs point about toomuch hardener in 2 pac is relevant as celly sprayed in too hot conditions can dry to fast giving mud-crack problems ,but yours was ok til the run so havent much of a clue whats actually happened .good news bout the polishing/not as bad as first feared.tho as you didnt use plastics-primer on horncast would expect flaking in a year or 2 ,if in direct sunlight the plastic will expand from heat too much for ordinary primer too cope, might get away with it ,we'll have to wait n see eh, H
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Post by Vespresso on Aug 22, 2014 6:49:20 GMT
I have now wet flatted, 'T Cutted', and polished the horn casing, mudguard, both side panels and thought I'd give the headset top ago, gotta say that they have turned out quite well, the headset top has got a couple of faint lines, looks like light varicose veins. But all the other bits have a nice deep shine, albeit you can now see some of the imperfections in my spraying, but that said, I think it now looks better then before the reactions started. Have got a replacement headset top, but think I'll leave the scoot as it is for now, crank up a few miles and see if the paint stays good!
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Post by henri on Aug 22, 2014 7:06:21 GMT
"looks like light varicose veins" , thats wat my missus says about me ,but she still loves me,
get sum miles in an build up the love for ya scoot ,probably nobody else will notice em ,on my red-hack i sprayed there was a tiny run near top of fork stem ,nobody else ever noticed it ,even other painters ,tho was first thing i noticed everytime ,well until i scratched the headset puttin a new "chrome" center stand spring on ,hope ya paint has stabilised now,shud off,H
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Post by Vespresso on Aug 22, 2014 12:34:31 GMT
Cheers H, how do I post photos on this website?
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Post by henri on Aug 22, 2014 18:49:42 GMT
simes66 has posted a thread in the "everything else scoot related" section , its no good askin me i think puters are a invention of the devil ,have asked sime if he's 1 of old nicks minions an wever rumour is true that he rides a gold bretta that never breaks down , he just laughed n posted a devil n scoot graphic , been nice to him since ,cant hurt as i reckon ive a seat booked on a express elevater going down some day , been told its a dry heat so thats ok,dont like humidity it ruins paint jobs , H
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Post by Vespresso on Aug 23, 2014 7:19:20 GMT
simes66 has posted a thread in the "everything else scoot related" section , its no good askin me i think puters are a invention of the devil ,have asked sime if he's 1 of old nicks minions an wever rumour is true that he rides a gold bretta that never breaks down , he just laughed n posted a devil n scoot graphic , been nice to him since ,cant hurt as i reckon ive a seat booked on a express elevater going down some day , been told its a dry heat so thats ok,dont like humidity it ruins paint jobs , H Lol! |
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Post by henri on Aug 23, 2014 20:31:02 GMT
forgot to say in ya p200 post ,guess ya worked out photo-bucket then, another little devil eh, say hi to "old nick" nxt time ya see the boss ,tell him "i'll be down directly,soon as ive finished my next scoot" ,daft bugger still hasnt sussed why i keep buying scoots to do, 3 things ya suppose to not be able to dodge ,taxes/devil n death, well i'm doing ok so far , H
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