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Post by coaster on Jul 18, 2014 11:03:51 GMT
Hi, the PX200 I just bought was sold without its engine bus has a 125 engine fitted to enable it to be wheeled around. I want to get it running if possible but I've no idea what model it is or even if it's Italian, Spanish or Indian?? The number on the case is BA 172?? any ideas?
Cheers
Colin
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Post by swm on Jul 18, 2014 12:25:25 GMT
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Post by coaster on Jul 18, 2014 12:59:36 GMT
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Post by henri on Jul 18, 2014 19:14:12 GMT
the number you want is stamped in the swinging arm offside outside edge ,hidden neatly behind the barrel ,as a "vespa " cases should have a prefix like " vt1m" an then numbers .ive never seen a number like ba173 ,unless youve got the barrel off an are reading the numbers stamped were cases meet ,same on both sides ,
your cases might not be vespa but lml or baja 1's , look for a cast in name piaggio,lml,baja , Henri
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Post by coaster on Jul 18, 2014 19:47:03 GMT
No, engine is still in the frame and the number is stamped on a raised boss partly obscured by the exhaust manifold, I've had a quick look but can't see any other markings. It is piston ported and I'v just noticed that the stainless flywheel cowl doesn't actually fit, the holes don't line up with the drillings in the engine case. It definitely can't be a PX that's for sure  May have to ditch it and find another lump. |
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Post by vespasco on Jul 18, 2014 20:11:31 GMT
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Post by rab on Jul 18, 2014 20:50:43 GMT
its possibly an lml engine but you also get starter and non starter flywheel covers
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Post by sbwnik on Jul 18, 2014 22:13:39 GMT
Electric boot model flywheel covers are larger than non electric start ones. You'd spot the difference straight away.
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Post by coaster on Jul 18, 2014 23:34:21 GMT
It definitely can't be a PX that's for sure May have to ditch it and find another lump. is it a complete engine bolted to the frame?,,carb and electrics It looks complete but as there are no wires exiting the magneto I'm guessing the stator is probably missing. The carb and exhaust are on though. |
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Post by henri on Jul 19, 2014 7:36:46 GMT
yep thats the number ,an ya say its piston ported ,so prob motovespa spanish ,unless its a really old 50-60's kitted barrel on it ,but severly doubt that, spanish are the ones ive heard of being piston ported before ,an the choke is a "strangler" on the airbox not on the carb , if carb is original ,
easiest for you is finding another lump ,but dont dump old 1 it could be quite rare an valuables as spares for somebody else running a original scoot.
an aswell as flywheel covers being leccy start/kickstart, if its a st/steel one ive never bought one that fits without fettling or even re-drilling ,so maybe thats why it dont fit ,where the wires from stater come out feel the vertical face on cases behind that , thats where a starter motor would be fitted if leccy start , if theres a motor/blanking plate or a big hole its leccy ,if not kickstart,
as far as i'm aware spanish engines followed italian numbering an pre-fix practice ,so the ba prefix doesnt add up ,the veteran vespa club holds the spanish records an douglas import records they might be able to help you work it out if ya bothered , piaggio an lml normally have there name cast into the cases down by where kickstart shaft comes out, sometimes both names on early licensed cases, baja have a little crest cast in underneath just round from where swing-arm meets crankcases .
all (piaggio/baja/lml) supplied replacement cases unstamped ,expecting you to re-stamp old case number in,or in a few cases people stamp in same number as chassis ,thinking thats how they come from factory ,or in old days man from dvla turned up with stamps an asked ya favourite numbers/phone number/date of birth an stamped the frame/engine there n then.
all very confusing/vexing , find a new lump ,stick it in ,an when bothered bored ya can research old lump, if interested . i am picking up a scoot from a guy monday who has researched the spanish factory history ,will ask him if he's any clues ,ok, Henri
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Post by coaster on Jul 19, 2014 9:24:27 GMT
Thanks for the help so far guys, I'll get some pictures when I can.
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Post by coaster on Jul 19, 2014 12:02:46 GMT
I will post some pics but this is a very tidy bike with only 14.5k miles on the clock. I suspect it's a Cat C or D insurance stolen/recovered jobbie hence the missing 200 lump. I only did an HPI check to make sure it wasn't stolen or under finance. It has Burton Brewers SC on the bottom of the number plate so might be a 'known' scooter. I will need to sort out a heavily scuffed and dented left hand bubble though. |
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Post by coaster on Jul 19, 2014 13:56:06 GMT
Here's a few pics of the scoot and the mystery engine, any thoughts gratefully received. I did try texting the guy that sold it to me via ebay and he said the engine was given to him years ago and had been lying around in his shed ever since...he has no idea what it was from. Scooter as received, the dama ge is on the other side.       Cheers Colin |
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Post by rab on Jul 19, 2014 14:46:28 GMT
wow that is an old engine and carb
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Post by henri on Jul 19, 2014 16:25:44 GMT
i'd bet my teeth if i had em in thats a 50's motovespa , an thers sumbody in the vvc that will happily give ya a folding wedge for it , nice scoot aswell ,well 1 side anyway ,get ya panel undinged an let us see both sides , llurrvee that scoot porn ,Henri
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Post by coaster on Jul 19, 2014 20:43:35 GMT
It would be nice if it did have some value, I checked out the VVC website but they don't seem to support non club members. Also, if it was that old, would it fit into a PX frame?
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Post by sime66 on Jul 19, 2014 22:01:09 GMT
I know bugger all about these things, but I like having a nose around on the Net. I found a Spanish site showing exploded drawings for Classic Motovespa parts (for a Faro Redondo, which is 60s Spanish from what I can gather); bit difficult to be precise about what model(s) or year(s), but there’s lots of similarities with the engine photos; carb, flywheel, kick-start etc. the part in the photo that caught my eye was the bat-wing on the selector box, and it really does look like the one in the exploded drawing. Here is the page: www.scooterclasico.es/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88&Itemid=54Here’s a comparison of the selector box photo and diagram:  Might help narrow it down, or safeguard Henri’s teeth? |
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Post by coaster on Jul 19, 2014 22:49:42 GMT
Thanks sime66, that's amazing sleuthing  I'll give that site a look Cheers Colin |
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Post by sbwnik on Jul 19, 2014 23:06:13 GMT
Oooh.... Interesting! <puts on part time job head> |
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Post by henri on Jul 20, 2014 15:40:05 GMT
dont get too excited nic ,he's a smallframe nut ,but might have sum clues about who to ask for further info,
coaster , any vespa large frame engine from vba (58 on i think,byrno will know) will fit a px frame ,an earlyer wide mount frames ya can get a conversion kit for later engines to fit,so its not unusual for there to be odd engine/frame matches . an ya right about vvc havin a members only forum n stuff , but if ya re-building a older scoot the 15quid membership will pay for itself as loads of shops offer discounts ,5-10%, for club members .an ive found a e mail to the secetery mr drake does get answered ,eventually ,specially when ya basically doing them a favour with offering a rare/hard to find spares for engine to some resto originality nut , rather than sending it to a scrap yard . if the duck-man dont answer you ,offer it here before scrapping as if its nearish to me an cheap i'll have it just coz i like weird different stuff like that ,even if it ends up as a paperweight its better than scrapped . Henri
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Post by coaster on Jul 20, 2014 20:24:12 GMT
Thanks guys, don't worry, I have an aversion to scrapping anything and will make sure this goes to a good home. I'll try emailing the VVB and see where that goes but I'll probably do that after I've found a PX 125......I'll place an add in the wanted section but does anyone have a spare Vespa or LML kicking around?  |
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Post by bryno on Jul 21, 2014 8:01:09 GMT
I'd say someone with an old Spanish 150s did a cheeky switch with a shiney modern PX motor ;-)
I don't think the piston ported Spanish engines have much value as people don't tend to restore to original those models as they're not particulaly collectable. Most tend to get converted to 'GS160 look alike', junk the (rather slow and hard to get parts for) 150 and stick in a PX motor.
Should be ashamed of themselves!
(That is assuming its not a piston ported Douglas engine, which would be far more valuable, Bill Drake is your man to confirm for sure)
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Post by henri on Jul 21, 2014 18:59:32 GMT
i didnt know douglas did a piston ported engine, coz then the engine number an 2 letter pre-fix would match the douglas way of marking chassis n lumps , different to italian way, so maybe its douglas not moto-vespa , douglas cases ,atleast later 1's i know have the douglas name in the casting .the spaniards ive seen an the 1 i picked up today all had piaggio type numbers an pre-fixes . H
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Post by sime66 on Jul 21, 2014 19:10:55 GMT
I sent an email to scooterclasico.es over the weekend, and they have replied saying that prefix BA…… Is not a Spanish engine.
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Post by bryno on Jul 21, 2014 20:47:52 GMT
Yes, the 152L2, Douglas version of the Italian VNA1T was a piston ported 125.
I believe those engines are quite desirable as rare and Douglas Vespas fairly collectable here in the UK, bit of a niche market though!
As suggested, speak to Bill Drake, he'll nail this in minuites!
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Post by coaster on Jul 21, 2014 21:16:11 GMT
Thanks again guys for your efforts I really appreciate you taking the time. I have already purchased a PX125 engine in bits (this morning)so the mystery engine will get moved on once I've found out what it is. Seeing as it's in the frame though and turns over nicely with good compression it would be a shame not to get it started....just need to get the flywheel off and see why there are no magneto wires??? I still have my old T5 flywheel puller, anyone know if all Vespa pullers are the same or does the thread size vary?
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Post by coaster on Jul 21, 2014 21:45:30 GMT
It might be a week or two before I get a chance to get on it but I'll keep you all informed;)
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Post by sbwnik on Jul 21, 2014 23:15:12 GMT
Some older Vespas use a flanged nut which pulls up against a circlip. It's quite a clever and simple idea.
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Post by bryno on Jul 22, 2014 8:10:39 GMT
^ that will be it, check you can see a circlip which sits in a recess in front of the flywheel nut, they do tend to get lost, you then undo the nut against the circlip which pulls the flywheel off. I have sometimes had to resort to a gentle hammer tap on the crank nut whilst its under pressure against the clip to shock it loose..
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Post by henri on Jul 22, 2014 15:20:41 GMT
an if theres no wires=no stator a little gentle heat before the hammer tap wont hurt , ive had to do this before as the last vbb i striped kept spitting the circlip out into my face , clean the groove well an make sure its either a flat sided circlip (non-thrust 1) or that the chamfered side faces the nut .
so i guess now youve found out its worth more than scrap it wont come my way cheap, not that ive a frame for it to go into,just its rare/weird an i aint got 1 in my "shed of curiositys" , otherwise known as the "i'll find a use for it 1 day pile" .if your serious about getting it running i might have a 6volt points stator that could fit it, its off a vbb but prob cud be fettled to fit, H
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May have to ditch it and find another lump. 
I'll give that site a look
