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Post by sbwnik on Apr 14, 2014 20:12:10 GMT
One of the most common and simple increases in power is to drill a couple of holes in the airfilter. These don't give a massive boost, but make the engine more torquey. The carb jetting will need to be raised to allow for the extra airflow. Apparently you can still get the standard filter that is pre-drilled, it's part number 285352, but it's not unknown for the two types to get mixed. If you do decide to drill the filter, ensure that you flush out any swarf from drilling. You don't need that in your engine!
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Post by henri on Apr 16, 2014 8:15:30 GMT
hi,ive only drilled filters for tuned/kitted px's in the past ,an have found with a free/flowing filter an expansion pipe that upjetting by 10% gets me in the ball park to start chopping plugs an fine tuning jets.my question is what do you reckon % wise should i upjet if i drill the filter on my standard px150 lump in my daily hack .i know it wont make much difference as its still standard exhaust an not tuned but "blue-printed"/optimised . but would like to make it free-er breathing to get the best out of engine . its a px150e leccy start(blanked off an ring off flywheel) running a si 20/20d ,102main,160air, be3 atomiser, 48idle. when doing this before have only changed the main an idle/pilot jets, as thought there the only 1's affected by the airflow increase,an not had a problem,but have been told i should go up on atomizer/an mixer tube too. i dont think this is neccesary as havent noticed any mid-range differences but not sure. thanks HENRI
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Post by sbwnik on Apr 16, 2014 10:12:54 GMT
I've never buggered about with atomisers either. If I stuck it on a dyno, then I may, but until that day... Upjetting is evil voodoo witchcraft, and there isn't always a definative answer, but I'd not expect you to need to go past a 106-ish, maybe even as low as a 104. Plug chop time Maybe worth starting on a 108 if you're feeling paranoid?
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Post by henri on Apr 17, 2014 9:45:28 GMT
yes thats what i thought ,as free breathing filter/exhaust means 10%increase ,5% for just filter seemed right ,for starters . use to think dyno's were the answer to tuning safely,til i found out as there a artificial enviroment whats perfect there isnt always good on road/race track.it needs a non-evil voodoo priest running the dyno who understands scoots (1 chicken sacrifice for piaggio,2 for innocetti as there always more expensive)an can allow for dyno/real world differences.1 reason i try an avoid tuning is too many owners throwing cash at scoots to build dyno-donkeys as they seem to think BHP=willy length ,an then moaning coz there super-scoot wont be reliable,is horrid to ride on road an blows up.that an i couldnt take the pub bores pointing out where i went wrong an how they wud of got it right,an when i look around for there creations there's just a rusty push bike chained up to cemetery railings,were its been for months as the keys are lost. sorry,rant over.at least "north of watford" were you lot still eat missionarys ,there's scooter mechanics/tuners/dyno's to choose from .down here there all thin on the ground an mostly seem to see scooterists as walkin-wallets to be emptyed . an as for "feeling paranoid" ,im always that way ,coz there out to get me,an a ongoing feud ive got with god,soon as i get on bike/scoot it rains, last winter was my fault ,sorry everbody, Henri
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Post by sbwnik on Apr 17, 2014 13:42:14 GMT
I think you'll find it was mine, wishing the weather would p*sh off and annoy someone else... I entirely agree about dynos. They're great if you want to get a clean running engine in still air and on level ground, but they can be totally different out on the road. Increasing air resistance with speed, altitude messing up the jetting, varying tyre friction.. They all carry penalties that a dyno can't show. That said, they're a great indicator tool, but they're not the be-all and end-all. I always set up by the seat of my pants. Take it to where it feels best, then richen a fraction to give the engine a fighting chance
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Post by henri on Apr 21, 2014 9:43:30 GMT
definetly ,knowing your own engine an tuning by ear on a road gives you a better settings,if there was a local scoot/dyno i might use it if setting up a racing/tuned to the max scoot .but for standard/mild tune ive got a local set route i use by my dads .use to be the main A3 til the bypass came now its a dual carriageway "B"road .2 miles slightly uphill going ,so ya can try 1/2-2/3's throttle settings an full bore coming back.there's even a ok pub's car park to "chop" at the turn-around.on a sunny day its too tempting to just have another go ,using the same route for all my scoots/bikes since i was a kid allows me to compare/evaluate between them. H
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Post by vespasco on May 19, 2014 19:22:50 GMT
Upping my main jet by about 10% was also right for me, but this was on my 'mildly' tuned 225. (Sip road n stock carb). I would not expect a stock engine to need a 10% main upjet. I also ended up drilling the heart shape out completely and taking off a layer of the actual filter, all to help with air flow. (I had a bitch of a time trying to set this up with a 190 air corrector - strangely going back to the 160)! What you need to remember is that the air corrector jet controls the amount of air allowed into the mix Similarly the main jet controls the amount of petrol going into the mix The atomizer is where these 2 mix together and then get distributed to the venturi, in certain ways. Without going into detail the hole sizes and position of the holes affect the different throttle ranges/fuel levels. This is where a dyno would be handy, to actually measure the difference, although as you say, it's all different when out on the road, where fine tuning at the riders discretion is the key. Which i'm the same as nik here, fine tuning mainly by ear/feel/ then going a tad richer. There ain't many (any??) roads in the UK that are high enough to affect the jetting! My test track is also a quiet dual carriage way nearby. Riding on motorways are always my last 'test'. (Usually riding around the M25)! After that then im confident it will get me anywhere i need. As for your stock px150 Henri, simply by adding a sip road (and again upjetting etc) you would benefit even more from all those nice mods' you've already done and still keep it (almost) stock looking/sounding too and i believe just as reliable, yet more responsive and a boost in power throughout almost all rev ranges Does anyone know when the px started/stopped using the holes in the filter and were the carbs jetted different to suit the holes? Or was it just one of the many changes introduced for stricter emissions? Q). Is blue-printing the same as doing it properly?!
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Post by henri on May 24, 2014 10:17:37 GMT
"blue printing" as you prob know is removing all casting/flashing marks an setting the whole engine to finer tolerances than are acceptable in manufacturing.getting ya motor as close to the designers original blueprint design as possible,so yes doing it properly should get ya close.i prefer "optimising" mine,as ya take more time than is allowed in factory to get inlet tract right,an fine tune timing an such like.piaggio don't do it as it would push scoot prices too high,like there 923 or some funny number.personally thought scoot looked ok for a auto cept for the seat,an a ali body might beat the rust but would be a mare to fix if dented,an would still ali-corrode were in contact with steel bolts .thanks for the answers/guidance on the air filter/jetting. H
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kev
2nd Class Ticket
Posts: 4
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Post by kev on Sept 1, 2014 15:00:49 GMT
I think you'll find it was mine, wishing the weather would p*sh off and annoy someone else... I entirely agree about dynos. They're great if you want to get a clean running engine in still air and on level ground, but they can be totally different out on the road. Increasing air resistance with speed, altitude messing up the jetting, varying tyre friction.. They all carry penalties that a dyno can't show. That said, they're a great indicator tool, but they're not the be-all and end-all. I always set up by the seat of my pants. Take it to where it feels best, then richen a fraction to give the engine a fighting chance It depends on the dyno and operator, the cheaper dyno's are nothing more than a rolling road with limited functions, the modern Dynojets are very accurate and with an experienced operator can give great results.
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Post by henri on Sept 1, 2014 16:34:42 GMT
i know a guy who tunes drift cars ,he's on his 9th dyno ,latest one looks like the bridge on starship enterprise an needs 3 towers/puters to control , wont tell me what it cost but when drunk will admit to still getting it wrong occasionaly ,an he's a dyno guy with a national/international rep, he still dyno's to get it "ball park" then tunes to driver on the track ,where it counts , if by great results you mean highest bhp figures i refer you to my earlier "dyno-donkey" comment, H
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Post by mickingle on Sept 12, 2014 10:41:18 GMT
Yesterday i orderd a new air filter from Ron Daley's as they supply them ready drilled. To go with it i ordered a 100 main jet, but they can only give me a 101 as none in stock. Original main jet was 96, up to 98 when i fitted the sito plus -
My question is, what happens if you have the wrong size main jet? Will having one just 1 size too big than is recomended make a massive amount of difference? and if so what can i expect to be looking out for. I know i can order a 100 elsewhere but its more a learning curve for me to know what im looking out for
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Post by vespasco on Sept 12, 2014 17:19:13 GMT
Firstly the 101 is likely Spaco not Dellorto. (i dont think Dellorto make a 101. 100 and 102 yes). Having your main jet too large will do no damage especially if its just 1 point too big... (but having it too small could be disastrous) You will notice if your main jet is too big when you ride at full throttle. It will not accelerate/go any faster past 3/4 throttle. It may even bog and you go slower!
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Post by rab on Sept 12, 2014 20:46:11 GMT
spaco dont do 101 theirs are even numbers aswell i was checking sizes out only yesterday at beedys for spaco
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Post by mickingle on Sept 16, 2014 10:34:33 GMT
i've ordered a 100 from allstyles. Beedspeed took 2 weeks to deliver the last stuff i ordered so they are off my favourites list. Ron Daley's delivery arrived next working day.
Fitted the new air filter and swapped the main jet last night. Also swapped the spark plug to a lower one, and tinkered with the tick over.
Ride to work not massively different tody but im putting that down to main jet being too large......will judge it when its all correct.
One bonus though, she started 1st kick and hasnt done that since day one when she was brand new. Do you think that's the spark plug?
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Post by rab on Sept 16, 2014 18:27:40 GMT
beedys are normally quite fast on delivery but i have noticed lately they have been out of stock of most things but i did see them with a bench full of delivery's today.ive been waiting 2 months yes 2 months for them to get red kick and brake pedal rubber in stock and they still haven't arrived in the shop
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Post by henri on Sept 16, 2014 18:28:53 GMT
just a tip , if ya go to dellorrto (uk) an see there jets they advertise both odd an even jets , but if ya order odds quite often they send size larger (even) an a note saying odd 1's out of stock an this 1 will do,seems ya can get odd ones but there (special order) , bit confusing ,so i just stick with evens , were only talking a hundreth of a mill , you have to be pretty sensitive to be able to feel difference ,an if can its more likely due to air pressure/humidity/temp than jet being 1 too large , an first kick startin is prob new plug n carb tickover set right , H
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Post by rab on Sept 16, 2014 18:35:41 GMT
well i think we defiantly killed the sticky on the filter drilling mod nik will be pleased
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salo
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Post by salo on Oct 9, 2016 17:35:36 GMT
Newbie question. I have a stock PX125 with a sip road 2 pipe and a 102 main jet. At the minute my scooter is running great. Was thinking about drilling the air filter. Any ideas about size of jet to go up to??
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Gothlife
1st Class Ticket
Rookie on the learning curve.
Posts: 84
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Post by Gothlife on May 15, 2017 8:44:34 GMT
Morning. What are the chances of this post being risen from the dead?
I've got a standard 2000 PX125 disk. I'm guessing my main jet will be a 96...
So if I drill out my heart (I can't seem to find the drilled out ones online anywhere) am I looking at a 102? Is it also worth getting a new mixer? Think I read somewhere a BE3 might be worth a shot?
What sort of performance increase will come of this? Guessing I'll just get abit more wiz/grunt pulling through the gears and an extra 4 Km/h top end?
Fingers crossed I've brought this back to life.
Thank you. Kriss.
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Gothlife
1st Class Ticket
Rookie on the learning curve.
Posts: 84
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Post by Gothlife on May 23, 2017 7:02:33 GMT
Managed to drill out the heart this weekend and stuck in a 104 which I thought might be slightly too big. Just rode it to work and it feels really nice. Sits at 50 even more comfortably now and will pull on to 100km/h on flat without to much trouble! Don't think it did that before. Pretty pleased with the simple but effective wee modification. Cheers for the post. Guess I'll be needing an exhaust next. ✌🏻
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Post by bignico2411 on May 23, 2017 8:03:04 GMT
Managed to drill out the heart this weekend and stuck in a 104 which I thought might be slightly too big. Just rode it to work and it feels really nice. Sits at 50 even more comfortably now and will pull on to 100km/h on flat without to much trouble! Don't think it did that before. Pretty pleased with the simple but effective wee modification. Cheers for the post. Guess I'll be needing an exhaust next. ✌🏻 Don't forget to check your plug colour, mate. You might have hit it spot on with the 104, but better safe than sorry. Plug should be a nice ginger biscuit colour. Bourbon means rich but safe (come down one size), custard cream too lean and a seize waiting to happen (up at least one size)
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Gothlife
1st Class Ticket
Rookie on the learning curve.
Posts: 84
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Post by Gothlife on May 23, 2017 8:14:00 GMT
This is how it's looking this morning after the 20miles blast to work.
Looks ok to me but what do the gurus think? Maybe come down a size or two? (I have a 102 but will order a 103 next time I get something from Beedspeed for extra fine tuning) It's a B7HS I have in ATM and I have a 6 in reserve. Seems good for blasting round the streets as well as the bit of sitting at 50 on the duel carriageway on my 20 mile commute. Guess if I ever go on a day trip I'll up it to an 8...
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Post by paulmattb on May 23, 2017 19:03:20 GMT
Hi,do you think drilling my air filter will solve my problem,have a 89 px 125 with standard engine and a simonini exhaustupjetted to a 104 but it bogs in 1st when pulling away and also dies and cuts out on me when I pull the clutch in neutral Cheers
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Gothlife
1st Class Ticket
Rookie on the learning curve.
Posts: 84
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Post by Gothlife on May 24, 2017 16:34:32 GMT
It might do. It will certainly do it no harm. Might need to tweet you jet abit? All I have done is follow the various posts on here and abit of google.
What's your plug like at the moment?
Haha. I know nothing. I'm just spouting stuff I've done but it seems to have worked...
Hopefully someone will give you some more technical advice who know what they are taking about.
Good luck dude.
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Post by doulsy on Oct 15, 2017 19:53:08 GMT
just put a sip road 2 on my 2008 px125my engine, I have took the carb filter off my p200 which was already drilled with 7mm and 5mm holes, I have went from a 96 to 100 main jet. does this jetting sound right?
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Post by mijapxman on Oct 16, 2017 0:41:11 GMT
doulsy, I see your thinking here 100.8 = a true 5% of you jetting. As jets are quite cheap and cheaper then a new piston, I think I would go (just to be on the safe side 😉) 106 as a true 10% of your jetting is 105.6 (as you'll know 😉) then 104, then 102, depending how the plug looks and it feels from the seat of your pants. One way that usually shows you if your main jet is too big, is when you get to three quarters throttle, the scoot won't accelerate or go any faster if you open the throttle any further, be careful as you down jet and do plug chops.
I may be playing it too safe, but that's what I'd try.
All the best.
Mij☺
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Post by doulsy on Oct 16, 2017 17:38:33 GMT
Just noticed there is no rubber round the carb box, take it i will need one?
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Post by doulsy on Oct 18, 2017 18:37:33 GMT
doulsy, I see your thinking here 100.8 = a true 5% of you jetting. As jets are quite cheap and cheaper then a new piston, I think I would go (just to be on the safe side 😉) 106 as a true 10% of your jetting is 105.6 (as you'll know 😉) then 104, then 102, depending how the plug looks and it feels from the seat of your pants. One way that usually shows you if your main jet is too big, is when you get to three quarters throttle, the scoot won't accelerate or go any faster if you open the throttle any further, be careful as you down jet and do plug chops. I may be playing it too safe, but that's what I'd try. All the best. Mij☺ right I went up to 100mj from 96 before I read this, it goes like funk now, very nippy and responsive, so after taking in what you said I put a 103 mj in because its the biggest I had, still runs good but not as responsive as the 100 mj, will adjusting the mixture screw help this? I never did any plug chops because I'm on my first tank of pre-mixed fuel since putting the scooter together, I will buy a new plug and do this asap, there was about a litre left in the tank tonight so I filled it up, take it it will be ok for plug chops now?
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Post by mijapxman on Oct 19, 2017 17:32:40 GMT
doulsy, I've sent you a pm 😉
Mij☺
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Post by mijapxman on Oct 20, 2017 7:06:26 GMT
doulsy, yes, fit a carb rubber. Do you know if you have the plastic drip tray fitted under the fuel tank? You want one fitted as it affects the jetting
Mij☺.
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