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Post by sime66 on Apr 20, 2013 11:07:57 GMT
 I’ve straightened my stand, which will do for the time being, while I decide what to go for. Whilst on it’s side I checked out a bit of a noise I thought I had whilst riding. I’ve got a bit of play in my rear wheel, and a distinct noise (on the above film). I have had a bit of a read about checking the hub nut torque, worn bearings etc., but from my little film can anyone say if this is serious, or if it’s OK to ride over to people who can give me an experienced opinion? I know a little play is OK; even still an MOT pass, but I just have zero experience of what is safe wear, and what is an immediate concern, and I definately don't like that noise. I know I’m asking a lot of questions at the moment; I’m trying to learn to do stuff for myself this year, and there is so much that seems to have been neglected until now. |
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Post by super150 on Apr 20, 2013 11:25:21 GMT
Ha! I know the feeling mate, I've hardly ridden mine this year as every time I do something else goes wrong! Pishes me off tbh, seriously considering getting the newer PX150 and see how I go with that.😒
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Post by sime66 on Apr 21, 2013 6:21:11 GMT
I definitely don't want a new one, this one's great, but there's loads to learn one-bit-at-a-time, and every job takes an age when you start from zero experience, and there's lots of jobs cropping up now that I'm looking at it myself.
There isn't much hands on advice down here, but I'm happy enough muddling through, and wouldn't change it.
This is a perfect example; an experienced eye might take two minutes say it's normal, don't worry, get it sorted before the MOT, or might say don't get on it again until it's been stripped and sorted.
I've no idea which is true.
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Post by sbwnik on Apr 21, 2013 21:00:01 GMT
I can't get the film to play at any sort of speed, so I'm going to give you my opinion, others may disagree.
Firstly, there is always a small amount of play in a Vespa rear hub. Generally it's just enough to feel it, but I've known a couple of mm at the tyre in the past. Any more than that and something is wrong.
The first thing I'd do would be to examine the hub nut. There should be a dust cover which prises off with a screwdriver, then a split pin running through the centre of the spindle, then a castleated nut cover, and then the nut and a flat washer.
Pull the split pin out, and remove the nut cover. Take a look at the nut, it should be a deep type (approximately 10mm deep) but I've known people fit ones from (I think) Lambretta engine mounts in the past, they're a lot thinner. If everything looks OK at this point then remove the nut and washer, slacken up the rear brake and lift the hub off. You may find it's stiff to remove, don't worry if you need to use a little force (NO HAMMERS THOUGH!!!).
Once it's off, make sure the brake shoes have a spring connecting them. If so, grab the spindle and try rocking it. You may get a little movement (and I mean a little) but shouldn't. If you do, then it's going to be open engine surgery, lets hope you've stopped reading by this point....
While the hub is off, flip it over and look at the inside. There should be nice sharp splines running the length of the hole the spindle sits in. If they look worn then it's time for a new hub. DO NOT BUY AN FA ONE. Piaggio are a lot dearer, but they sit correctly and last longer..
Hope some of this helps.
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Post by sime66 on Apr 22, 2013 6:22:26 GMT
Cheers Nik, that is very useful and I will follow it.
I’ve put the film on Youtube now, to see if it helps viewing. It was more the noise than the play that concerned me, although it was the feel when riding that I noticed first.
Anyway I’m onto sorting it. I’ve had a look in there before when I watched the guy servicing it last year – we checked the innards and brake shoes. I’m not sure if my nut was loose when I looked at it on the weekend, but when I got the cap off the nut was right up tight to the pin, so I had to cut the pin off to get at the nut – then I was snookered because it’s a 24mm nut! So I’ll go back to it in the next couple of days (with correct socket), start with checking whether or not the nut was still torqued up properly, and follow your suggestions for inspection and possible remedies around hub and spindle, with fingers crossed for less drastic outcome.
It’s easy learning another part of it at home, rather than on the side of the road. What I really want to know, if possible to say from the noise on the film, is can I ride it as it is? My scooter is my transport, not just a weekend toy, and unless it’s dangerous, or causing more damage, I’d like to continue with essential journeys. It rides fine, and the brakes are fine. I reckon I can fix it myself if it’s the hub, and will definitely use a Piaggio one, but I still don’t know how serious it is as it is, or whether I can ride it.
Here’s the film on Youtube:
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Post by bryno on Apr 22, 2013 8:02:36 GMT
Re play in the back wheel this should be no more than the feel of a 'click''. If you can feel it when riding, or easily see it when moving the back wheel, then you need to look for a problem.
The noise in your video when the wheel is spinning is not right, the 'click' does not sound to bad to me though.
Sounds more like something catching in the gearbox than back brakes though, but you may find something obvious with the hub off.
Worth noting that the 'acceptable' play in the back wheel is actually the whole axel and gearbox moving, if you take the selector box off and watch the end of the plunger, you will see this move in line with the movement of the wheel, if these do not move together, then you have a problem elsewhere, hub splines/axel, wheel bearing etc...
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Post by joey on Apr 22, 2013 8:04:42 GMT
1) The knocking sound when spinning the back wheel, to me, sounds normal........ it's just the loose gears moving on the layshaft.
2) There is a fair bit of play on the hub...... just do as Nik says and try to retighten it. Mine loosens off after a while and creates a bit of play so I just keep my eye on it. A small amount of play is quite normal but yours does need nipping up.
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Post by kru251 on Apr 23, 2013 6:57:08 GMT
As an extra, there is of course some backlash in the gears. Just had my PX all apart and you can see what's what then. One thing I might add is that it pays to spin the wheel in the usual direction of travel as otherwise you are 'driving' the gears on their 'backface' rather than their normal face so might sound different.
The shot of your trainer shoe and the sigh at the video clip end says a lot !!!!!!!
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Post by sime66 on Apr 23, 2013 9:04:45 GMT
Thanks for all the advice and info once again – it is really helpful for me. I’m going back at it tomorrow evening, so I’ll update after that. I need to use it tomorrow, and I’m less concerned now about immediate catastrophic failure, but will definitely have it all apart and have a good look for the problem after that. Probably just needs retightening, but looking around inside is a good chance to familiarise myself with it all, and most of the possible outcomes are things I can fix myself. I understand the point about the selector box inspection as an indicator. I also recall that for the MOT, the bloke just wiggled the wheel on its stand, and there is no discernable movement when checked like that. It’s under control; thanks.
Kru, I realised I’d spun it the wrong way, when there was mention of the noise coming from the gears; I am a donkey! I think the sigh was more due compression of my belly than disappointment, and I confess I do have a bit of a fetish for a sharp shoe, but that one’s just an old gym trainer, relegated to the garden. One thing I have learned this last year though, is that there is more to this scootering malarkey than posing around worrying about getting oil on your clothes, or your hands dirty.
She’s a dirty girl, who needs regular hands-on attention. ;D
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Post by kru251 on Apr 23, 2013 17:16:45 GMT
She’s a dirty girl, who needs regular hands-on attention. ;D Yeah, and the scooter's nearly as bad!!!!  |
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Post by sime66 on Apr 25, 2013 12:02:55 GMT
Yeah Baby!
No knocking on spinning (in either direction!). Still a little click on rocking though, tried to show in film that it can be heard but not seen really; might even have always been like that. Did get a bit of a pinch-up with the torque wrench and I’ll keep an eye on it now I know. There’s enough room for a spacer-washer – good idea? Couldn’t have got nut off on my own if I’d wanted to, so settled with that ‘till I’ve got a lardy mate to sit on it, as long as he doesn’t bend the stand I’ve just straightened - I will look inside in near future when I’ve got a hand.
Also replaced my speedo cable using a couple of tips from earlier posts on here, especially like the allen key bolt idea on the cover plate for next time.
So it’s double-thanks all round chaps, and I might get back to my carb upgrade now………..
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Post by kru251 on Apr 25, 2013 19:32:17 GMT
That's good! Now get that lens cap outta the way; ha ha
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