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Post by kru251 on Jan 20, 2013 19:31:56 GMT
Tubeless tyres are safer; full stop. So, I have these SIP's on my PX200EFL due to this being the only scoot I take my better half on.
Now (as Nik knows) I have had the front tyre go down on a regular basis lately. Looking for a puncture but no. Changed valve core; no difference. So today I decided to get it all apart best I could to check the bead seal etc. These first scary pictures were what I saw! I can only assume that the tyre fitter used washing up liquid straight out of the bottle rather than diluted to ease the tyre into place. This has corrosive potential as can be seen and is not what they are supposed to use (tyre soap) but they do as it's cheaper to use washing up liquid etc I have since spent some time carefully cleaning the internal bead area with a fine Scotchbrite pad and the tyre bead with brake degreaser and cloth. It all seems to have come up OK. I have refitted the valve core and used my compressor to 'pop' the tyre over the little location rings and seettle it all down. Up to fifty psi then back down to 18psi. Seems OK so far but I will check over the next few days to see how it copes. The rear has been OK, but MUST have been fitted the same way so I'll have that one off to clean it up too. One another note, a friend used some of that tyre sealant 'Goop' stuff on his motorbike and that actually created tiny fissures on the rims. Needless to say I'll be avoiding that stuff
BEFORE:- ANDAND NOW AFTER:-AND
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Post by pxguru on Jan 20, 2013 20:51:58 GMT
I have the same rims on mine I have the all Grey ones and they are coated inside and out. So it might not be such a problem. What about taking them to a car garage and getting them inflated with Nitrogen? I put that green slime in one of my motorbikes once. Almost ruined the wheels; took ages to get clean. Then coat with that liquid rubber. Was fine after that but never again!
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Post by kru251 on Jan 20, 2013 21:15:40 GMT
What do ya reckon to that 'GOOP' stuff on the INSIDE a tubed tyre? I'd never heard it for use like that (only tubeless rims/tyres) but see it is advertised. I suppose it won't damage a rim and 'might' help slow a blow-out to 'just' a puncture that goes down slow perhaps?
PS Not on this scoot by the way, but a tubed other one!
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Post by pxguru on Jan 20, 2013 21:22:54 GMT
Might be ok inside a tube. Would be worth a try. You might have to cut the tube out with a knife when you need to change the tyre though
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Post by kru251 on Jan 20, 2013 22:57:51 GMT
If it saves a small punture turning into an almighty blow-out/crash (as it did for one of our members who suffered major head injuries after the resultant crash) I'll happily scrap the tube & tyre once it's worn out!!!!
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Post by bryno on Jan 21, 2013 12:21:50 GMT
I know a few people who use the goop stuff in tubes, it does apparently slow the puncture down even on a tubed tyre..
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Post by kru251 on Jan 21, 2013 12:57:25 GMT
Thanks Bryno. I'll get some and try it then. Got to be worth a go and if it saves one catastophic puncture then............ ;D
PS Just ordered some on-line!
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Post by kru251 on Jan 21, 2013 22:37:03 GMT
Latest update on rim.
Well, after all that elbow grease and cleaning etc the tyre seems to be holding pressure. Spot-on after 24 hours which might not sound much to you lads (actually it doesn't sound a lot at all) but believe me is a real success story after what's been happening to it lately. I MUST do the rear one now as I bet you it's the same even though it's not leaked yet; oh gawd all that work agaiin? Has to be done though.
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 23, 2013 21:04:27 GMT
Not by a lot Bryn, I've known someone get spat off a Lammy after doing that.
My valves are still leaking, going to change them when i get chance.
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Post by bryno on Jan 24, 2013 11:23:29 GMT
I've seen a demo on a tube which shows it slows down that sudden burst you get on a tube but the goop will not reseal a tube.. That said, I dont use it, nor tubeless rims, just good tyres, change them before they get to the limit and decent branded tubes new at every tyre change.. I must be lucky having done maybe 50k with only one slow puncture, but who knows what will happen when I go for a ride tomorrow morning!!
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Post by kru251 on Jan 24, 2013 22:25:33 GMT
A few of us got together (as ya do) down the pub last night as we haven't seen each other since last year when we packed it all in for winter; Wednesdays are the PALS (Petersfield and Liss Scooterists) normal informal 'club' night. Anyway, got chatting about Goop etc and a guy said he was at a scooter show where they took an inflated tube with Goop in it, then pushed a nail into it so it had definitely punctured the tube. Then he pulled the nail out and the hole sealed up with very little loss of pressure. Well, at 8ukp delivered with enough to do 4 tyres, it'll do for me!!!
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Post by Devo McDuff on Jan 25, 2013 2:03:33 GMT
Only ever had one flat myself in probably about 25,000KMs and that was pretty recent. Went over a big pot hole and then about half a K down the road was wobbling a fair bit, should have really have pulled over and checked straight away.
Other brown pants incidents include a heat seize on the motorway and all but one nut having worked it's way loose on a rear wheel. That was a close one, handling didn't feel good and literally just come off a high speed flyover when it felt really bad. Pulled over and it didn't take long to realise how lucky I was. Pushed the scoot forward and the rear came off the hub altogether. Nylock nuts now!
Would not fancy a major blow-out, might give the goop a go my sen.
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bsr65
High Number
Posts: 114
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Post by bsr65 on Jan 25, 2013 9:00:30 GMT
you get bicycle tubes with sealent fitted, so don't know why scoot one's aren't available for a few quid extra
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Post by joey on Jan 25, 2013 11:35:41 GMT
The tyre sealant stuff works roughly on the same principle as putting a piece of sellotape on a balloon, stick a pin in it and it doesn't pop but slowly deflates. Used in a tubeless tyre the strands in the mix will fill in any small holes but only as a "get you home." On a tubed tyre it does stop a rapid deflation which can mean the difference between skidding down the tarmac on your bumbone or pulling nicely on to the hard shoulder and still being able to swear a lot.
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Post by kru251 on Jan 30, 2013 9:10:45 GMT
Only ever had one flat myself in probably about 25,000KMs and that was pretty recent. Went over a big pot hole and then about half a K down the road was wobbling a fair bit, should have really have pulled over and checked straight away. Other brown pants incidents include a heat seize on the motorway and all but one nut having worked it's way loose on a rear wheel. That was a close one, handling didn't feel good and literally just come off a high speed flyover when it felt really bad. Pulled over and it didn't take long to realise how lucky I was. Pushed the scoot forward and the rear came off the hub altogether. Nylock nuts now! Would not fancy a major blow-out, might give the goop a go my sen. WOW. You got very lucky in terms of not having a major incident with the rear wheel. Not something I want to contemplate. Maybe that's why SIP rims come with two lockwashers per stud.......... or maybe it's more to do with the fact that the nuts collar catches the wheel rim otherwise!!!! The heat seize? Goes with the 'stink wheel' territory it seems. Most two stroke riders suffer from that disease; "Hovering Hand". Sits over that clutch lever ready to grab a handful !!!! I said clutch not crotch.
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Post by Devo McDuff on Jan 30, 2013 20:54:14 GMT
Yes, I adopt the hand over clutch riding style now. Funnily enough had read on here about pulling the clutch in as soon as you start skidding, might not have occurred to me otherwise!
With the rear wheel nut thing, I'd noticed something a little off a few days before and was going to look into it at the weekend when I had time. So at least one had already gone. Was daft, I won't be delaying checks like that now!
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 30, 2013 22:19:21 GMT
My SIP rims came with Nordlocks, not a pair of washers. Faultless so far...
Famous last words!
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Post by kru251 on Jan 30, 2013 23:26:04 GMT
Sorry Nik. To be corrected, yes my 'lockwashers' are Nordlocks. Just think that they need another washer really as the hex section of the nut 'just' touches the rims and you aren't quite sure if it is the nut bottoming out on the washers or catching the rim around in the recessed hole a fraction before being tight................. if that makes sense. I will try adding a thin washer to the stud then the Nordlocks to raise the reatiner nut a fraction & so clear the hex head for sure!!!
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 31, 2013 19:09:42 GMT
Mine are perfect. I've put around 5000 miles on mine without any problems, not lost any tightness. I'm not sure I'd want to space the Nordlocks up, they seem perfect as they are.
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Post by kru251 on Jan 31, 2013 21:03:24 GMT
Well just checked mine Nik and the nut/collar definitely just catches the hole outer. Mine were bought last year so maybe a different batch of nuts? Or maybe the machined hole depth is a fraction more? Or, is the milled hole slightly (as in fractions of a mm) offset? Americans have a great name for wear or tolerances that are slightly out. They call it "Toleration stack-up". Describes it really well IMHO. Are your nuts like this if you'll excuse the phrase?!
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Post by sbwnik on Jan 31, 2013 22:56:24 GMT
Same type, I'm not taking them off again though! Are the threads bottoming out on the threads?
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Post by kru251 on Jan 31, 2013 23:39:27 GMT
Nope, just catching. See the slightly darker area on the lower collar? Think that's part of where it catches. Sold my lathe just before X'mas too, otherwise I'd take a bit off the collar & recheck it.
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Post by sbwnik on Feb 1, 2013 2:27:50 GMT
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Post by kru251 on Feb 1, 2013 12:33:38 GMT
Thanks for that Nik. Wasn't aware of that but I had cause to be in Allstyle scooters today (to see about additional Norlock washers funny enough as std washers won't fit over the stud/in the recess!) and asked questions re. these nuts. They said there were different ones. Hmmmmm, So I micrometered their SIP nut stock. Guess what? They have changed the design!!!!!!! The original nuts were chromed. Fitted some rims apparently but not all rims. Then they went to supplying bright plated type (as I have). Better apparently, but now they supply a black one which looks like a rust-in-5-minutes-special but maybe it's just thinner protection. Not good as with the first application of a socket it looks like it'll take off the protection on the sharp edges hence my 5 minute comment. The original, good looking chrome ones are 14.40mm diameter. The black ones are 13.40mm. That is one whole millimetre not just microns. I know I found that hard to believe but it's true. I checked a few. Just going to turn mine down in the collar area with a lathe when I can borrow/access one.
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Post by sbwnik on Feb 1, 2013 20:06:55 GMT
I've got the black ones. They're sturdier than they look, the same thought crossed my mind when i saw them.
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Post by kru251 on Feb 1, 2013 20:18:38 GMT
Well that's good to know, but you can see yours are approx 0.9mm narrower in diameter than mine. Makes a HUGE difference eh?
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Post by sbwnik on Feb 1, 2013 22:54:34 GMT
I've not measured them but I do remember they used a different socket to normal - 12mm?
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Post by kru251 on Feb 1, 2013 23:22:44 GMT
Spot-on Nik. Yes, they are a 12mm head. I've made sure I have one in my Vespa tool roll as it's not a normal one that!
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Post by sbwnik on Feb 2, 2013 22:14:30 GMT
Same here, bloody SIP!
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Post by kru251 on Feb 3, 2013 18:58:12 GMT
For good measure I checked the rear tyre out today. Not as bad at all, in fact pretty good. Strange but glad it wasn't like the front one However, guess who lost a single Nordlock washer. Yep, disappeared with no trace even though they were all put in a magnetic tray for safekeeping. Typical
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