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Post by Devo McDuff on Oct 22, 2012 4:22:36 GMT
Recently acquired a '98 PX200E as missed having a Vespa and need something more reliable than my Lammy for work and stuff.
Gong from 2nd to 3rd and more so from 3rd to 2nd is quite hard work. Could this be the cruciform or could the gear cables just need adjusting?
Also, want to keep it quite simple for the reliability factor but was thinking of swapping out the exhaust for a Sito. Will I notice a difference? Will I need to upjet? Any other exhausts worth considering for a standard engine?
Cheers.
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mickymidas
High Number
2Ronnies sc , Nuneaton.....Promoting chuckleism to the masses
Posts: 232
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Post by mickymidas on Oct 22, 2012 8:01:12 GMT
Could be something as simple as cables need adjusting to sync with position of handlebar selector and gearbox .
When i have had cruciform problems in past it starts with jumping out of lower gears.
Has engine been rebuilt recently ? could be gears not been shimmed correctly .
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Post by bryno on Oct 22, 2012 8:05:47 GMT
as above cruciform worn causes jumping out of gear, more likely a problem of poor adjustment, lack of grease in the selector box, etc
Sito plus will give a slight increase in power, upjet 2 points, but it will be louder than standard. Loads of exhaust options mate, they all make slight performance gain, on the P2 Sito plus, drilled air filter and up jet is the most popular route. Google it..
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Post by sbwnik on Oct 22, 2012 10:56:14 GMT
SIP road is a better pipe than Sito now..
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Post by bryno on Oct 22, 2012 11:07:51 GMT
^ really must get myself one of the SIP's, hearing lots of good things.. And I find the sound of the Sito simply annoying!  |
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Post by sbwnik on Oct 22, 2012 11:12:43 GMT
Ah. You'll hate the sound of the SIP then I can't fault mine though, taking it off soon to clean it up, it's had over a year of abuse so far with no problems. I'd like to keep it that way! |
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Post by kru251 on Oct 22, 2012 18:52:50 GMT
Devo.
I have found that it is all too easy to have the cables set perfect then they start to get tighter after a while. Mine became a pain in the wrist to change gear after a long run out, This is the opposite of what normally happens stretch-wise with Lammies.
So, start by backing off the two adjusters to loosen the outers by say 1/2 to 3/4 turn each. This at the engine end of course. This won't affect the ident positioning if all is OKwith them to start with. Might be all that's needed. Hope so!
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Post by sbwnik on Oct 22, 2012 21:22:01 GMT
That sounds like badly routed cables to me Kru, the only times I've ever known mine get stiffer is when they've either frayed or frozen. Crappy clutch plates wont help though.
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Post by kru251 on Oct 22, 2012 22:01:14 GMT
Weird I know, but it is perfect now with that back off adjustment. Did probably 500miles on the new cables before it started going stiffer; all well lubed of course. Done 1,500 miles now with it backed off that tad and gear change is absolutely great. No, I don't know why. Just know it is better than a couple of other PX 125 owners scoots I know now; whereas it wasn't before. ;D
My Vespa is my kinda safe bet rather than the three other Lammies. It's the reiable choice!!!!!
A thought is that maybe with perfectly lubed cables it is OK set tighter but as it/lube wears off a bit the cables get stickier.more drag so hence the slight bit of slack helps?
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Post by Devo McDuff on Oct 23, 2012 8:27:56 GMT
Thanks chaps.
It doesn't jump when I'm in gear and riding normally. Sometimes I will jump down a gear too far when I'm changing because it needs a bit of force but I just jump back to the right gear in a second before releasing the clutch.
Gears are lined up well with the handlebar position. Will have a look at adjusting etc. then. Glad that it doesn't sound like the cruciform is the issue.
Hmm, the SIP is appealing. Just had a look at the specs on their site. The noise doesn't really bother me (not sure the neighbours could say the same though!). Want a standard look so guess it is between this and the Sito and everything I'm reading suggests SIP is the way to go. Again just upjet 2 points?
With the drilled air filter thing, is there a bit of a compromise on reliability? Reliability is key for me but if I can get a performance gain without much risk then I'm keen. I read that you can buy the air filter pre-drilled, anyone know where? I'd like to keep the standard one incase I want to change back so if I'm buying a new one to drill ,if I get it pre-drilled at least I know it will be spot on.
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Post by bryno on Oct 23, 2012 8:50:13 GMT
I am all for keeping it standard and reliable mate, my 27 year old P2 is still running it's original exhaust, (and cables and bulbs LOL) but the one thing it has is a drilled air filter and a 118 main rather then the OE 116 (yours may be 118 already). I have seen a few new air filters pre drilled, but it really it is so simple to do. If you google it there is a good article with graphs of pre and post drill, std and performance pipe and pics of exactly where to drill and what size. In this article Sito plus and drilled filter with up jet got the 'biggest' overall gain. Mine runs just fine on std exhaust and drilled filter and still drinks less fuel than anyone else I ride with  |
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Post by Robjack on Oct 23, 2012 11:49:55 GMT
With the SIP, I went up to a 120 main jet. I've been told that even that's not enough but it seems just fine to me. Plug chops look just right. I would imagine that 118 is risking it a little, and it's deffo not enough if you're going for the drilled filter. Mine doesn't seem excessively noisy compared to a Sito, I would say it's much closer to the standard than that. I always wear earplugs though so I might just have not noticed.  Any pics of the new P Dan? |
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Post by Robjack on Oct 23, 2012 19:41:37 GMT
. I read that you can buy the air filter pre-drilled, anyone know where? I'd like to keep the standard one incase I want to change back so if I'm buying a new one to drill ,if I get it pre-drilled at least I know it will be spot on. Available, conveniently, from the same place as the exhaust. (see third pic) www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/air+filter+piaggio+_40250000 |
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Post by kru251 on Oct 23, 2012 21:42:06 GMT
Devo. That semi 'missing-a-gear' is just what mine did too as it stiffened up. Eliminated it with that cable back-off. See here:- Scroll down to ref 1866. www.allstyles-scooters.com/acatalog/V-CARB-ETC.htmlClick on the picture and you'll see the additional holes ringed in red. I would have just drilled mine out if the air filter were OK, but it was old and grubby so just bought a new one pre-drilled. I also went to a 120 main. Perfect and one of those mods where you can really feel the difference rather than think well maybe it's better..............but I'm not sure! Well worth the small outlay and little time to fit. Probably the cheapest upgrade for performance gain I've ever done!!! |
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Post by Devo McDuff on Oct 24, 2012 7:05:40 GMT
Great Kru, will have a look at adjusting the cables this weekend then. Also it sometimes locks completely, in that I try to change gear but it won't budge until I release the clutch and pull it in again. That symptom still fit?
SIP pipe and drilled air filter it is then, canny wait!
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Post by kru251 on Oct 24, 2012 7:48:17 GMT
Well that lock-up you mention wasn't so bad that I really remember it on mine but if by that you mean sort of holding in gear and won't move; then yes. I do remember grabbing the clutch in a couple of times to sort of clear the stiffness. Not an issue after the adjustment on mine. I had already carried out the clutch bell housing mod to make the slots deeper as mine was dragging on the clutch badly when hot due to lack of slot depth. Don't think this an issue with your though. This from a previous posting. I had problems with clutch drag so modified the cork clutch plates by making the slightly lower 'slots/channels' in the cork completely clear with a hacksaw blade just to allow the oil to flow around better. The cork plates are only 'milled' out slightly to allow them to be stuck to the steel plates in a circle so once attached these cork slot/channels can go so you jusdt have raised cork sections above the steel plate. The reason I had my clutch apart in the first place was it was dragging right from when it got warm. No fun with clutch fully pulled in and still moving forward!!! So, had to give expansion room for the plates. Did mod as recommended by Allstyle Scooters of slightly increasing the slot depths. Careful use of file/Dremel. Worked an absolute treat and no issues now at all with clean shifts and a very smooth action clutch!!   [/quote] |
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Post by bryno on Oct 24, 2012 7:54:15 GMT
With the SIP, I went up to a 120 main jet. I've been told that even that's not enough but it seems just fine to me. Plug chops look just right. I would imagine that 118 is risking it a little, and it's deffo not enough if you're going for the drilled filter. Mine doesn't seem excessively noisy compared to a Sito, I would say it's much closer to the standard than that. I always wear earplugs though so I might just have not noticed. Any pics of the new P Dan? 118 is fine with drilled filter, that is what I run with OE exhaust, yes more like 120 if you run Sito or SIP and drilled filer. But of course all engines different so best do a plug chop test to be sure |
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Post by Robjack on Oct 24, 2012 11:40:10 GMT
Aye Bryn, I should have said that it's (118) not enough if you are going for the pipe and drilled filter.
I was running the 118 with the SIP road and the plug chop was fine, then I realised how much crap was on my air filter and cleaned it up. That's when I went up to 120.
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Post by sbwnik on Oct 25, 2012 0:42:12 GMT
Hold fire on buying the SIP pipe for now, I've seen what i'm replacing mine with in the new year.
Standard looking, but much revier than even the SIP, with greater torque. Coming from Mark Broadhurst in the new year....
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Post by Devo McDuff on Oct 25, 2012 22:11:26 GMT
Nik, oooh not more options! Sounds interesting though.
Rob, pics to follow!
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Post by kru251 on Oct 26, 2012 18:51:45 GMT
Mark B is always fine tuning his exhausts. Good stuff!!!
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Post by sbwnik on Oct 28, 2012 12:38:45 GMT
I'll be popping into MB Developments at some point this week, I'll see what I can find out.
It looks sexy as a sexy thing though.
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Post by joey on Oct 29, 2012 9:23:10 GMT
Guessing that if it's got MB/SCK stamped on it it's going to cost a bit.
Saw the prototype Mark put up on FB page a while back, the only real difference is a larger cone going into the box, looked a bit of a dog though, mind you it was a prototype so I'd imagine it'll be tidied up before going into production.
Allegedly he is also developing a Malossi 210 eater..............
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Post by kru251 on Oct 29, 2012 15:23:44 GMT
Guessing that if it's got MB/SCK stamped on it it's going to cost a bit. Allegedly he is also developing a Malossi 210 eater.............. That way, when it blows up he can have more business rebuilding it. Mark's no fool; lol! |
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Post by sbwnik on Oct 29, 2012 15:31:36 GMT
Joey, I was talking to him recently, and yes that's the one, but he wants to put it out at around the ton.
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Post by Devo McDuff on Oct 30, 2012 0:59:23 GMT
One of the gear adjusters is broke, new cable (may as well do both) then.
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Post by joey on Oct 30, 2012 9:18:47 GMT
If he's doing it for a oner I might be very tempted......... done the quick Vespa thing (and getting bored with paying through the nose for fuel,) so going down the 207 with Polini intake on standard carb and SIP road (or MB version if it's out soon enough!)
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Post by kru251 on Oct 30, 2012 22:15:01 GMT
One of the gear adjusters is broke, new cable (may as well do both) then. Well they are both the same age and have done the same amount of work so, yep, change 'em both IMHO. |
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