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Post by Rudi on Feb 4, 2007 10:59:46 GMT
greetings! now this is a bit funny so dont laugh! i own a PX200E and the NOISE is killing me... especially above 60-70kph and when the throttle is open let me state that the stock exhaust is ok, no holes. but ive noticed sth else, that the majority of noise comes from the inhaling of air. the carb box is connected to the body with a rubber accordion-like sleeve, and the body itself acts like a air reservoir BUT also like a subbuffer, making a very disturbing humming, when the throttle is open wide or close to that. its like riding on a metalica concert speaker.... SO, what I did (and dont lauge ha!) ive put a foam in the breathing hole thats under the seat and miraculously the noise level was reduced significantly. I only rode it for around the block, haven't tried it for a long ride cause its raining here.... my only concern is that it can richen the fuel mixture, resulting in a foul plug. so I plan to run it for a few KM and than check the plug. my questions are: 1 - anyone wants to comment about what i did? 2 - any harm can be made, that i didnt think of?(sorry for the long message!) this is probably what will break my enthusiasm regarding the vespa. i can deal with the average brakes, with the foot break, with the ironing board seat, with that every 50cc scooter opens faster, with no under seat storage, with average lights, and the smell.......... but the noise is really bothering me... thanks.
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Post by bryno on Feb 4, 2007 17:22:37 GMT
Hmm, does not sound like a great idea to me, as you have stated you are effectively restricting the airflow which will I guess mess with the mixture setting .. I've never really noticed induction noise on my T5 which is mechanically as noisy as hell anyway, I'm sure you will have checked but is the filer undamaged, with the rubber bung in place in the top cover? If it is engine noise you could try fitting the side panel insulation and padded engine lower cover from a T5.
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Post by Rudi on Feb 4, 2007 18:46:37 GMT
i took the vespa for a ride an hour ago and i think, that was the placebo talking... the noise wasn't reduced as i thought. the rubber air bellow is new, it was cracked and i replaced it. on one time i actually tried removing it but the noise was even louder.... sounded like an elephant trying to call his mates... the problem i have sensitive hearing from all the years of music or whatever (i worked as a mechanic too for some years) so the noise is more bothering... i think i will look for the T5 isulation panel... and maybe a two meter extension to the muffler... or i can just fit an F16 engine and be quicker than sound....
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Post by Rudi on Feb 5, 2007 0:30:35 GMT
by the way there is some sort of filter that goes in the breather hole in the chasis: www.sip-scootershop.com/pages/details/details_images.php?ID=22749&index=0it not intended for noise reduction though... I thought of another thing: remove the gas tank, and cover the chassis interior (that acts also as the air box ) with some sort of noise absorbing material + cover the inner side of the right side fender + use the T5 engine noise absorbing panel. that can reduce some noise I guess... I just have to find a good material that will withstand the heat, not crumble in time or shred little pieces.... does that sound crazy?
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Post by Spence on Feb 5, 2007 12:21:22 GMT
The last time I took the fuel tank out of a T5, the cavity was already lined with foam rubber.
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Post by Rudi on Feb 5, 2007 19:29:14 GMT
can you see this foam from the cavity? if so, then the PX doesnt have any noise absorbing foam inside (i looked in, saw nothing but the chasis and tank...), ill take a closer look tmrw.
i guess piagio thought of that and this is why the T5, along with the engine cover is much quieter
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Post by bryno on Feb 5, 2007 20:22:41 GMT
Not got any insulation below the tank on my T5 classic, worth a thought that Something like Dynamat would do the job, I used something similar in my car, stick to the inside of the panel to reduce drumming noise.. Longer muffler is not a bad idea, I noticed a fair reduction in noise whilst on the move when I switched to a Simonnini with the exit right at the back of the bike vs the SitoPlus with the exit right under it..
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Post by dto79px on Feb 5, 2007 21:21:23 GMT
you could alway's buy some earplugs ;D
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Post by jackthekipper on Feb 5, 2007 21:32:46 GMT
yea,louder the better rudi,turns heads
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Post by Rudi on Feb 5, 2007 21:41:58 GMT
you could alway's buy some earplugs ;D ears already plugged.... 3M 28 decibels ear plugs..(orange long ones..)
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Post by jackthekipper on Feb 5, 2007 21:52:16 GMT
can you get yer crash helmet on though ? ;D
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Post by Rudi on Feb 7, 2007 15:01:28 GMT
what?! i can't hear you... ;D
seriously. today i bought two cans of undercoat spray. the main purpose of the spray is to protect from rust, but there is also an added value of reducing noise. at least this is what it says on the can... so, i'm going to spray the inner body and the inner side panels with it, hopefully it will help reduce a few decibels.
my question regarding this: what is the correct procedure for removing the gas tank. i know there are bolts under the seat, but how do i disconnect the fuel tap??
it looks like there is no free play to it. do I release the TOP gas tank bolts and then lift the tank a bit , then squeeze my hand in, and disconnect the tap??
thanks.
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Post by bryno on Feb 7, 2007 21:07:10 GMT
Good news is you don't need to remove the fuel tap, just poke the rubber grommet through and that gives you enough free play to lift the tank out with the tap attached, assuming you have disconnected the fuel pipe at the carb end that is
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Post by Spence on Feb 7, 2007 21:18:28 GMT
I think I remember describing this in another thread somewhere, probably also in conjunction with Bryn, but here goes.
Undo the bolts on top of the tank, remove the seat and disconnect the sender (if you have a fuel gauge). Disconnect the fuel pipe at the carb end and push a bolt in it to stop it leaking. Push the fuel pipe in through the body a little way to give yourself some slack, taking care not to push the grommet through with it as it can be tricky to get back out again (disconnecting the air hose gives you a fairly big hole to put your hand through which will help with this).
Then, as Bryn says, remove the grommet from around the fuel tap. You should then be able to lift the tank out, whilst carefully angling and jiggling to get the fuel tap through the hole.
My other top tip for this is the same as for all pesky Vespa jobs: two pairs of hands is better than one, so unless you're a chimpanzee and can peel bananas with your feet, get someone to help you.
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Post by Rudi on Feb 7, 2007 22:09:42 GMT
thanks a lot guys ill try to do it this weekend
i'll update soon!
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Post by skrappey on Feb 10, 2007 18:20:48 GMT
If it's any help, the LML also has the baffles mentioned and insulation inside the panels. Also a nifty foam filter under the seat to keep the dust out in India. However, if you put a Simonini on you won't hear the engine at all.
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Post by Rudi on Feb 12, 2007 12:10:26 GMT
Hi All, well, this weekend i took the gas tank off . I sprayed an underbody coat a few times. then i took some isulating matterial (used for accustic walls) and put some on the rear side. I coated the two side covers too. + I installed a windshield. (ill take a few shots soon, ill add the link in this thread. turned out very nice) NOW for the results: still too loud for me. maybe a few decibels lower... can it be im too old i guess so... now a few question please:1 - Is there any website i can order the Simonini from? 2 - Can i keep the spare tire in place with this exhaust? 3- LML, the Indian company? skrappey can you refer me to their site? I couldn't find any info on google, just a few other products of theirs. ride safe.
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Post by bryno on Feb 12, 2007 19:58:25 GMT
Hi Rudi Most of the UK dealers sell the Simonini for about £65, try here: www.twescootershop.co.uk/It exits on the right, so no problem with spare wheel, however do bear in mind it is a BUDGET aftermarket exhaust, mine was a poor fit so needed modding, metal is pertty thin as is the painted finish and the end can fell off mine after just 4 months! If you are going to the cost of importing one to Israel from the UK, personally I'd look at other options as well.. Yep, LML's were made in India & imported to the UK these guys seem to be big in the sale of parts for them www.eddybullet.com/index.htmlHope that helps!
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Post by Rudi on Feb 13, 2007 0:13:16 GMT
Bryno,
A vespa rider here told me the sito plus is a waste of time. i dont know if thats true..
to be honest, i dont want to spend much,.... . i can live with the current engine power and i dont want to get into the carb jetting and so on. just keeping the noise level as low as possible and far back, is my first priority.
The simonini looks pretty cool i gotta say... isnt there anyway to secure the silencer (can) ?? and what sort of modifications you had to do in order for it to seat correctly in place? (or did you refer to jetting?)
What can you suggest other than the simonini?
many thanks.
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Post by bryno on Feb 13, 2007 20:06:18 GMT
Well I am not a fan of the Sito, I've had 2 (both second hand I must admit) but they both split in the same place, the baffles break loose and rattle like hell and they are just too loud for my liking... the Simmonini is quieter and IMO a nicer sound. I have a T5 not a P2, so maybe the P2 Simmo will fit better, but i had to bend the bracket where it bolts to the swing arm, then cut a slot in the bracket to get the bolt to line up, without doing this the exhaust would have touched the underside of the floor. I also had to reverse one of the engine casing bolts or the end can would have hit it and cut back the engine cover or it can't be refitted without touching the can, apart from that it was a good fit! There is no bracket at the can end of it, personally I think there should be one, just looked at a pic of the Polini pipe and that seems to have one. However, the end can on mine just fractured around the weld, presumably through vibration, and I have to admit the engine does vibrate a fair bit which won't have helped. You just need to pop a slightly larger main jet in, only about £6, the dealer will know roughly which one you need on a P2. Alternatives? you can still get the OE one, Leovinci or Polini, then more expensive are Scorpion (can't use with spare wheel) or the PM Tuning one I have now. Someone on here also mentioned ScootsRus. Out of that I'd look at the Polini, looks similar to the Simmo, but has that extra bracket.. Take a look at the catalogue on www.beedspeed.com, they have pics of some of them..
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Post by Spence on Feb 14, 2007 12:46:19 GMT
I'm on my second Simonini on my P2 because, like Bryn, I had the end can sheer off my first one at the weld. This happened when I rode off a 'dropped' kerb at a petrol station exit with a pillion passenger.
I don't know what the road surfaces are like in Israel, but if like Liverpool you have to contend with shell craters and mortar splashes every few yards then perhaps the Simonini isn't for you as it runs much closer to the road surface than some other pipes.
Apart from that, it's much noisier than a standard pipe. The end can turns the Vespa pop-pop-pop into a lovely rat-a-tat-tat somewhat akin to a roll on a snare drum.
On the pipe I've got fitted now, I had to re-drill the hole in the bracket that attaches to the underside of the frame to make it fit, then do a lot of attaching, unattaching and re-attaching between that bracket, the swinging arm and the exhaust manifold before I got it on properly. That turned what should have been a simple re-fit into a full Saturday afternoon job. Having said that, I'm not mechanically minded at all so it was a major feat of engineering for me at the time.
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Post by Rudi on Feb 15, 2007 11:53:34 GMT
first, bryno thanks for the info. turned out i did hear the simonini, i just didnt know it was a simonini. the other day i met a vespa guy that has it (+an aluminum cilinder kit). its noticeably louder than the stock i gotta say, although his vespa is a bit faster then mine i guess... yesterday i drove about 40km, and the vespa does sound quieter. ive noticed that when throttle is open the howling like suction noise from the body is lower and not disturbing so much. so, the conclusion is that padding the inner body and coating it reduces the noise. plus, the windshield i installed saves me a few wind decibels. here are a few pictures of the windshield. s144.photobucket.com/albums/r166/golbis/vespa%20windshield%20project/ i used a jigsaw with a metal saw to cut the perspecs, nice and wavy on the bottom. i also made two new brackets with 4 holes each. 1 hole for the mirror, 1 hole for the windshield leg, and 2 for the bolts that connect it to the vespa
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Post by Spence on Feb 15, 2007 12:36:32 GMT
Neat piece of engineering.
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